Yeah, i’m not saying they shouldn’t get siège ram. I was just pointing out that they should be separated options 11.
Anyway, at this point we all agree that tanky+slow civ fits well Teutons. All they need is either get the cavalry a little bit tankier or their infantry (specially TK) a little bit less slow
o Relic bonus for Teutonic Knights. I don’t know what though.
o Split the “Garrisoned infantry shoot arrows.” from Crenellations into a civ bonus, and make Crenellations cheaper.
That’s it for me. Buffing Crenellations and making TK’s a little less niche would give that “Infantry” civ label some more sense, and without taking away from the Teuton flavor of “Slow and tanky.”
Y’know…back in the development cycle for AoE2, they had an entirely different concept for Relics. Basically you carried them with your army, and it gave a passive buff in a radius around the relic-carrying monk.
Something like that could be super interesting specifically for the Teutons.
I had this exact thought today.
Edit - Relic bonus for Teutonic Knights is food/gold discount and extra pierce armor per garrisoned relic. Enough relics in combination with the TK’s high damage and fast creation time would turn TK’s into cheap, fast-massing infantry Battering Rams.
Everything outrunning Teutons would matter a lot less, when it should be easy for Teutons to cost-effectively force fights with super tanky building wreckers.
Ah yes, let’s give the unit with 13 melee armor a bonus for extra pierce armor as well. That sounds balanced.
Yes. I’m glad I have your support. For if the crippling problem with Teutonic Knights that makes them useless outside of a very specific niche is their hard counter from archers, then why not just make them more resistant to archers? 11 And if I should just mix in Battering Rams against archers, then why not just make Paladin instead for less resources and far better utility?
Am I the only one who hates relic bonus idea completely?
I’m not really a fan because it would be a bit too close to the Lithuanian bonus.
After thinking about it, I dislike it aswell because it would put too much focus on you getting relics ASAP. I think it would force you into getting to Castle Age fast and training a monk every match.
Actually liked the option of crenellations adding 1 more range to towers, that would mean the towers damage would still stay the weak old same but their range would be of some use. Also, I disagree with the suggestion in the thread of giving their knight line +1 melee armor, because then that would just make their teutonic knights even less useful in comparison. I was actually against this idea before but now thinking about it, if ETK had 3 pierce armor, like the paladin, that would make sense and would be justified considering it’s slow movement speed. That would still make it so that archers are a good choice against them, but not that tough. Also, their base speed could be upped 0.7 -> 0.75 so after squires they can catch villagers. Maybe make the speed modifier rise on the elite upgrade? Also, making TKs themselves even more resistant to monks (not immune, like some have suggested) could also help. But already so many suggestions even in my post, if all those would be implemented, would it make it too much? Maybe. Or maybe that would be just enough to make the UU better. I’d actually like to see them receiving like 2 little buffs (speed, convert resistance, pierce armor, a very slight cost reduction) and if that still ain’t enough, later introduce other 2 (or just 1) and see if its then good. Siege ram could also be a nice addition but too much is too much. Capped ram with the extra melee armor is already better in that respect than a Siege ram, especially against Chu Ko Nus extra “melee” arrows.
EDIT: Actually, now that I came to think of, after all this talk about buffing teuton cavalry, how about give their scout +1 melee armor, if for nothing else but lols? xD
Also came up with another idea, maybe the Atonement technology should be required to even be able to convert TKs? So they could have an initial immunity. And they could still receive a little buff to their conversion resistance anyway.
Well imo siege ram better than capped ram with extra armor because it has more hp,attack,extra garrison for units and most importantly speed.As for chu ko nu I dont think teutonic siege rams with extra melee would OP overall I rarely see chu ko nus being used in competitive scene.Also dont forget its not like a free bonus you actually need economy(also castle) for ironclad tech as well.
They aren’t that rare. They have seen quite some play in DE tournaments, unlike say, TK or elephant archers.
The armor really gives it a lot more hp against melee units that have low attack, namely trash and medium hitters. Against very heavy hitters not so much though. And yes, ironclad is 400 wood 350 gold. Siege ram is 1k food. Yes, gold is worth more but the upgrade is not super expensive. Mostly people make atleast one castle to get trebs anyway so getting a castle just for the sake of ironclad seems far fetched.
A simple sollution is ti classify TK as monks&infantry.
By this way, fervor and santity technologies could affect them (a bit of help), and enemy monks should have atonement in order to convert them (very circumstatial), although enemy hussars would have bonus damage against them (however, TK would still obliterate them)
Trash having bonus damage on TK negates all meaning from TK melee armor
True, its a silly idea.
And worst, since also eagles would have bonus damage.
But i do like TK having fervor and santity. Both would help against archers a bit.
The trouble is, no amount of statistical buffs is going to remove their vulnerability to faster ranged units without removing their identity entirely or unbalancing them in other ways.
Make them fast enough to catch archers and they are also fast enough to just rampage through anything else. Giving them extra pierce armor just slows the process down, it doesn’t stop it. At least, not until they become virtually invulnerable, at which point they once again become overpowered.
I like the idea of letting them convert enemies, but I have no idea how you could possibly make it both functional and balanced without inventing entirely new and bizarre mechanics. Like, “each TK has 20 power, and you need 5 of them to convert a single enemy” or something like that. But that would be really weird.
The good news is that unit type and armor classes aren’t the same. You could make the TK monks so that they are affected by monk techs, but without giving them the monk armor class so that they aren’t countered by LC/eagles.It would be the opposite of Arambai, who have the cav archer armor class but aren’t actually cav archers (ie.they aren’t improved by Parthian Tactics)
Someone suggested a Thibetan mod and wanted the UU to be an infantry/monk hybrid and people pointed out that conversion are already the monk’s “attack”, so a unit can’t both fight and convert.
Eh, as far as problems go that’s relatively minor. Just give them a convert button.