Another idea that was proposed repeatedly by different people is that the tech doesn’t automatically convert any vills. Instead it allows to pay some extra ressources (like 30 G or so) to convert a vill to a Flemish Militia. And the advantage of training the unit directly from the TC is saving some ressources (especially gold).
I think its also important to stress out that it was Game 9 in a very intersting series, in the final of a very interesting tournament.
I think the rage (while justified) was only that intense because the highest stakes game of the entire tournament was arguably the worst one gameplay wise; there was hardly any actual gameplay, just boom into button into GG.
And since nobody mentioned it yet: Nili announced after the game that the devs are indeed “aware of the tech”.
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Which doesnt mean much. I am sure they are aware of the tech, they in the end placed it with much chuckles and laughter how disruptive it is and how it defies all rules of aoe2. And its not only this tech that is problematic. Most new dlc additions are just weird ideas from totally different games added to aoe2, just to follow the disruptive dogma, claiming it would enrich the game, but in the end annoys more than helps.
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For me its got a cool idea and really is an all in move. You can’t just pick this mid battle and expect a win but it is a great tech if your winning and need to make a nice push or the enemy has broken your line and you could stomp his army with. I have beaten it a few time by preparing when i saw the signs. More castles and archers with onagers
Maybe instead of turning each vill into a FM for free, how about something like spies where it costs something like 10g and 20f for each villager?
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Dynamically adjusting the cost of the UT based on the number of villagers looks like a nice idea, but I doubt it will actually work.
If the revolution is to be researched, it’s pointless not to have enough villagers, since it can only be researched once and the player has to use this wave to create the as bigger power as possible. Therefore, when the number of villagers is small, the benefit of low UT cost cannot be highlighted since it won’t be researched.
It also needs enough time to accumulate resources to cover expenditures during the post-revolution period of stagnant income. This means there is only an incentive to research it in the late game that there are enough villagers.
Frankly, the Revolution is powerful, but it’s also obvious and easy to spot, so it’s more of a means to force an endgame.
An experienced opponent can usually sense in advance that the player is going to research the Revolution, more than 3 TCs and excessive booming are common features. An experienced player will also assume that the opponent is aware that the Revolution is going to be, so it will be assumed that the opponent may be prepared.
It is often when the player has already taken the lead that the Revolution will be used to deal a fatal blow to the opponent who cannot struggle. Let a large group of infantry drill inside and take away the opponent in one wave, when the opponent has no spare to prepare countermeasures (such as a large number of archers or hand cannonneers) and cannot block the broken wall.
If the player does not have a clear lead, it means that the opponent has time and opportunity to prepare countermeasures, then the revolution means accelerated fall. Gave up everything but didn’t take away anything from the opponent. The revolution failed.
When is the best time? What are preparations made by both sides to make the revolution succeed/fail? Whether will the player give up researching the Revolution because of the change of the situation?
As both sides and even the audience realize that the Revolution is coming, it may become an interesting inner game. Yes, what’s really interesting to me is the preparations of both sides for this before clicking the button.
(Well, if the opponent can successfully counter the Revolution, it must be a very good game too.)
This is a powerful civ, and it is operated by a skillful player. The preparations are often sufficient and unstoppable, and the timing of research is also very precise, so it seems that the Revolution always wins. But in those games that are already clearly leading, even if they don’t research the Revolution, the results are likely to be the same after minutes.
GKT_Cloud, a well-known player in Taiwan, watched the finals and seemed surprised when he saw the Revolution. It seemed like an unexpected decision, but it actually made perfect sense. High booming + clear lead, good preparations for using revolution. As a strategy, it was also very successful, successfully blocking the possibility of the opponent struggling and counterattacking. After all, the opponent is a skillful player too.
Of course, all this is silly when viewed from a different point of view. But I also want to say, it’s brilliant and a good game to watch.
Just a question. Does it convert garrisoned villagers as well? What if you could garrison the villagers you wanted to keep as villagers and it only converted all the others?
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Well so was the mechanics of revolution in aoe 3 legacy, you activated the revolution but your economy died in the process and you could not create more settlers…in the 3 DE they changed it to send you the card of citizenship after the revolution to be able to create settlers (or its revolutionary version) again…
Of course, that would be valid too…
Of course, I wouldn’t have said it better…It is to give more variety to the game and make it more interesting for modern RTS players…For example, I like AoE 3 tournaments more for doing things like that than those of AoE 2…
How do you spot the difference of a player booming into pala and a player that booms, adds 2 more TC in the back of his base and goes revolution?
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I’m not a skilled player. If I’m in the game, I can’t necessarily spot it.
But I guess something can be a hint. Scores and the intensity of military investment may tell you something. If there is a way to get close, actively scouting the opponent is the most helpful. In a Gktcloud’s ranking game, when his burgundians opponent started building walls on the open map, he had the expectation that the opponent might try Revolution.
After booming, whether to choose fast Paladins or the Revolution, players can indeed change their dicision according to the situation, so the opponent may need to defend against both strategies at the same time. It’s just that Burgundians usually dare not go Revolution if it is not a sufficient lead. I think that as long as it is possible, the opponent has to make some precautions first, for example, civilizations with hand cannon must research Chemistry and so on.
What if they research time is heavily increased and you get warned when your opponent click it, instead of when it’s already over?
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This is partially true.
There are some possible signs of the revolution coming. However, they are very unclear and often missleading. I think the main problem is that burgundians have strategies that look very similar (and, in fact, can transition into each other with little effort!), but those strategies require very different counters.
Indeed, noticing those signs highly requires keen observation, enough experience, and maybe a little luck.
Maybe something could be done to make the signs more obvious or to be better prepared to counter back.
For example, maybe change the cost of the revolution to require a lot of wood so that maybe there is more diffirent from the preparation required for fast paladin.
Or, to reduce the sudden power of the revolution. Different from purely nerf Flemish militia, after downgrading the it’s stats, add an upgrade tech to TC, which can upgrade it to Flemish Soldiers or Elite Flemish Militia. This is equivalent to splitting the current revolution into two techs. Between the time the villagers turn into infantry and the upgrade is complete, a large number of infantry is still oppressive, but easier to deal with. For teh Burgundians player, it’s still very powerful as long as it keeps as many Flemish Militias alive as possible for the upgrade to complete.
What if the player uses this to cheat the opponent?
The player clicks the button to warn the opponent, causing the opponent to rush to spend time and resources preparing to deal with the large number of infantry, but the player cancels the research at the last moment.
Good point, but could be circumvented by shortening the tech and adding a timer for its effect to happen (the timer could then be visible to all). However, Im not sure if id like this, the one thing the flemish rev does well is this “BAMM” feeling and a timer kills this.
This is actually a nice idea, creating more actual decisions (do you push immediatly or wait) while also increasing balance and beeing more historicially accurate.
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You could remove the instant convert all villagers and instead make it fast training from the TC but it costs a villager to train.
So you create a militia but it removes one. Perhaps have it convert garrisoned villagers.
Make it cheaper and leaves your villagers unaffected. Instead it just gives you access to Flemish Militia from barracks with a super fast Shotel Warriors with Royal Heirs type of creation speed.
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This can be a way to manipulate the amount of villagers converted and not nuke eco. But I still think FM can be available in TC upon reaching imp.
Well, yea that’s the idea…
So you mean you select some villagers and then you press convert icon and those villagers become flemish militia when you have researched Flemish Revolution tech? Will each villager convert cost something extra beside villager turns into military unit or it will remain free? For example if you have selected 13 villagers it will cost 130 gold.