[Poll] What is your expectation on Elephant in the room: Persians Changes?

Developer’s left a note in the last patch - Let’s talk about the elephant in the room: changes are on the horizon for Persians .

Personally I’m very excited for this. It will be very interesting to see what changes are made.

What is your expectation about Persians change?

  • Small changes - Some small changes on their bonuses
  • Big rework - New architecture, bonus or UU being added. Kind of change the play style of the civ.
  • Total redesign - New wonder, AI name. Essentially represent different people from now. Something similar to Indians to Hindustanis change.
  • Nothing - Don’t care about any changes.

0 voters


None of these quite fits my expectations. I predict:

  • New unique tech. Mahouts becomes part of the Elite War Elephant upgrade.
  • Gain Steppe Lancer.
  • Possibly an additional unique unit.
  • Possibly get central Asian architecture.

But I think any changes will reinforce their existing playstyle, not change it.

As for the wonder, I think a few civs could do with new ones (Slavs, Franks, Britons, Koreans) and having there old ones changed into scenario editor objects – but the Persian one is good as it is.


I think your conclusion is wrong. Reinforcing can still change the play style. If they get such new units, their play style will be changed. Surely they may still be cavalry focused. But a bit different from current type of cavalry play.

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I expect big changes.

  • Get Central Asian Architecture.
  • Gain a new unique unit for stable/archery range. Savarans or Qizilbash.
  • More civilization bonus, they have only 2 as opposed to other civs which have upto 5-6.
  • Remove Paladins because they are the only non-Europeans to have them.
  • Share Caravansarai with Hindustanis.

Me too.

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Yes, now I reread what I wrote:

I realise it doesn’t make much sense. Changes that don’t change anything? This is what happens when I post quickly early in the morning…

But what I mean is I don’t think they will change to a completely different playstyle. They’ll still be an economy-focussed cavalry civ.

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Maybe this unit is coming to Persians.

It’s partial graphics file (savaran idleB) used to be there in early release of DE until they removed it in 2022
Would be incredible if yes.


Looks nice, but what’s the team colour here? Purple or red?



My prediction is Big Changes. What I anticipate, rated by likelihood.

90% chance: Persians get receive FU steppe lancers – Persian identity back in AOC days was being the only civ with a fully-upgraded stable. That’s still kinda true if you regard steppes and Battle Eles as regional units that don’t count, but this identity has still been drained a bit. TriRem is still at FE and loves these sorts of civ identity things. I consider it extremely likely that any Persian overhaul gives them Elite Steppe Lancer with full upgrades. Coupled with their elephant UU, and they’re basically back to having a “full stable,” or something close to it.

90% chance: Persians get Central Asian architecture – This gets requested all the time, and it’s well-known that the architecture set is based on Samarqand, which was a culturally Persian city in this time. Devs have changed Spanish, Byzantine, and Vietnamese architecture in the past so this wouldn’t be a big deal.

90% chance: Mahouts tech remove or reworked – FE devs have steadily been either removing or altering UTs that only affect UUs. Panokseon is out, Berserkergang is out, Royal Heirs was changed. A never-researched UT for a never-made UU is ripe for getting drummed out.

75% chance: Persians get 1 new normal bonus. Persians only have 2 standard bonuses as currently written up, and while the TC/dock HP/workrate bonus has a lot within it, it still leaves the Persians looking and feeling rather boring. Not only do they have few bonuses, but all of their standard bonuses are economic in nature. They’re crying out for a military bonus of some kind.

50% chance: Persians get a UT or bonus affecting Cav Archer – A lot of people really want some kind of CA for Persians. Some want it for historical reasons (Persians used tons of CA) and some for gameplay ones (Persians would be the first no-Bracer civ with serious standard CA play). One idea I’ve soon fairly often is giving them a UT that gives CA +3 attack, so they have the hardest-hitting CA in the game at the expense of bad range.

25% chance: Persians get a new UU – A lot of people have talked about Persians getting Savarans or some other cavalry unit as a new UU. I am skeptical of this. War Elephants are an original AOK UU and are pretty iconic, so even if they suck I really doubt they get removed entirely.

15% chance: Persians lose double TC HP. Persian douche is controversial but has been around forever, isn’t OP, and is not that massively hated. I think people would be sad to see it removed completely.

10% chance: Persians receive elephants in the stable – This would happen if FE really wants to bring back the Persian “full stable” identity. Conceivably could be paired with them getting a new UU, and the War Elephant either leaves entirely or becomes an upgrade to the Battle elephant.


Little change can change a civ from top to buttom, or the opposite. Just think of the Portuguese organ gun

What if they don’t remove but only add a new UU?

That unit would have made a nice hero skin.

A previous message of mine

Agree with most of this.

  • Architecture - Personally I could take it or leave it, but wouldn’t be surprised to see it change.
  • Mahouts - I think that’s about 99.9% likely now considering those three UTs you mentioned. I was honestly surprised in April when it wasn’t removed.
  • New Bonus - Agreed. Maybe Free bloodlines. Hits right in castle, helps both cavalry and CA, and no one else get it for free.
  • New UT - Yeah I’ve heard a lot of different flavors of this. I think I’d have CA have an atk bonus vs pikes and monks. War Elephants still have their weaknesses, but mix in a few of these buffed CA to help them with their counters.
  • Removing War Elephants & Battle Elephants - Agreed. They’re just too iconic to be removed. Maybe they could be a unique upgrade, but I’d be heartbroken to see them removed entirely.
  • TC HP - I think you just need to tweak the bonus so that it takes effect starting in feudal. If you’re TC is in serious danger in dark age, either you’re getting douched or you’re flat out getting outplayed.

EDIT - Is has been brought to my attention bloodlines is a feudal tech. I swear I double checked this as I made this very mistake not a weak ago but such is life.

I really hope they will take the occasion for a dlc in the style of doi. Persians are one of the original civs to still lack a campaign. If I had to personally do it, the DLC would revolve around Bukhara, I would add hepthalites and gokturks along with a koshrow campaign.


Looks awesome, are there more removed units like this?


Bloodlines is a feudal age tech

I was thinking Elephant Archer, or maybe Battle Elephant with different skin (which latter is unlikely, because of the current War Elephant)

Central Asian building set with Steppe Lancers sounds tasty for me though.

A third option is to allow Sogdian catas in the Stable.

I swear to god I got that wrong last week and I checked it right before I wrote this to make sure I didn’t make the same mistake lol. IDK how I could check it and still get it wrong lol.

Husbandry. HUSBANDRY hits right in castle.

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Guess what, Cumans already have free Husbandry (and scales better in Imperial, while also you have faster scouts in feudal).