What would should be the setting of the 3rd Chronicles?
Rome
Diadochi
Something else (post in this thread)
Not interested in Chronicles
0voters
The end of the Alexander campaign heavily hints Rome, which is not very surprising since they made the mod Rome at War before Chronicles, but I’m still curious what you would prefer.
I was hoping the next Chronicles would be about the Maccabean Revolt, adding the Hebrews, Seleucids, and one other civ, with a team up with the Roman Republic touched on at the end, easing into the subject of Rome instead of diving into it immediately. Either that, or it would be preceded by a Mauryan setting.
Need not be the 3rd Chronicles but wishful thinking that it is made one day.
DLC with 4 new Civs reusing the architectures - Magadhans, Avanti, Kalingans (Ancient Indian Architecture); Seleucids (Ancient Persian Architecture)
Grand Campaign for Magadhans
First Section focusing on expansion of Magadh and war with Avanti as Haryanka Dynasty and Nanda Dynasty.
Second Section focusing on war with Seleucids as Chandragupta and subsequent expansion in North-West India (Puru).
Third Section focusing on rebellion of Ashoka, consolidation of his empire and subsequent war with Kalinga.
Haryanka Dynasty
Bimbisāra (543-491 BCE)
In mid-Sixth Century BCE, Magadha came under the rule of Haryanka Dynasty led by King Bimbisāra (543-491 BCE)
Bimbisāra was the first king to have a standing army. Therefore literature mentioned him as Shrenik (or Seniya Bimbisāra). This was possible due to the agrarian fertility, river based trade and central position of Magadha allowing it to collect toll tax in long distance trade.
He strengthened Magadha by matrimonial alliances. He married Kosala Devi, sister of Prasenjit and gained Kāshi in dowry.
He married a princess of Vaishāli (Vajji). Bimbisāra annexed Anga and took revenge of defeat of his father.
Annexation of Anga gave Magadha the control of eastern branch of Uttarpath, lower course of Ganga River valley, access to ports of Bengal like Tāmralipti and trade routes towards Tibet and China.
Ajātshatru (490-460 BCE)
He was son of Bimbisāra, he expanded Magadha by military conquest.
Due to rise of Magadha, Vajji and Malla Janpada formed a confederacy.
Ajātshatru defeated and conquered both of them by creating differences in their ruling class.
Ajātshatru annexed Kosala by defeating Prasenjit.
Ajātshatru built a fort in village of Pātligrām and renamed it Patliputra (at the confluence of three rivers and surrounded by 3 hills)
Like Magadha, Avanti Mahājanpada was undergoing its own expansion and conquered Vatsa and Surashena Mahajanapada.
Udayin (460-430 BCE)
Udayin (son of Ajātshatru) transferred capital of Magadha from Rājagriha to Pātliputra.
Nāga Dynasty
Founded by Shishunāga who ended Haryankā Dynasty.
Shishunāga defeated Avanti and in process also conquered Chedi, Vatsa and Shursena.
Son of Shishunāga was Kālashok who patronized second Buddhist Council.
Nanda Dynasty
Mahāpadma Nanda ended Nāga Dynasty in 370s BCE. Perhaps he belonged to Shudra varna.
Mahāpadma conquered Kuru and Pancāl Mahājanpada.
Mahāpadma took high sounding titles like Ekrat (Sole Authority), Akhilbhuvanpati (Owner of Entire Land), Ugrasena (King with aggressive Army)
This indicates rising centralisation in administration which is achieved by rising revenue of state controlled by king
Last King of Nanda Dynasty was Dhana Nanda who further expanded Magadha by conquering Matsya Mahājanpada.
Alexander came to India during the reign of Dhana Nanda and it was perhaps the elephant based army of Dhana Nanda which discouraged Alexander to cross Sutlej River.
In Greek sources, Dhana Nanda is mentioned Agramese / Xandramese
Maurya Dynasty
According to DD Kosambi, Alexander’s invasion of North West accelerated the Mauryan conquest of India. It defeated whatever strong kingdoms were left in Punjab.
Death of Alexander made it easy for Mauryans to expel Greeks from North-western India.
321 BCE: A Brahmin named Chānakya and his disciple Chandragupta Maurya defeated Dhanananda and ended Nanda Dynasty. The sources for this event is a 7th / 8th Century CE Sanskrit play Mudrārakshas (ring of Amātyarākshas) written by Visākhdatt. Story describes how Chānakya has stolen ring of Rākshas (Prime Minister of Nanda Empire) and used it to forge documents and letters.
Chandragupta Maurya (321-298 BCE)
320-310 BCE: Western Expansion of Mauryan Empire where Chandragupta conquered regions till Western Coast. In Junāgadh, he ordered his minister Pushyagupta to construct a lake - Sudarshan Lake.
310-305 BC: North-western Expansion of Mauryan Empire where Chandragupta conquered majority of Gana Sangha till the Indus River.
305 BC: Chandragupta defeated Seleucus in a battle fought near Indus. After this Chandragupta gained territories of Afghanistan Region and married daughter of Seleucus named Helenā in return Chandragupta gifted 500 War Elephants to Seleucus.
Seleucus sends his ambassador Megasthanes to Magadh in which he described Sandrokottus and his capital city Palibothrā. In 1785, William Jones (in Asiatic Society of Bengal) identified Sandrokottus as Chandragupta Maurya and Palibothrā is Pātliputra. This identification became the basis for history writing in India.
298 BC: Inspired by a Jain Monk Bhadrabāhu, Chandragupta renounced the throne and became a Jain Monk. He migrated Southwards to Shravana Belagolā (Hāssan District, Karnataka). In Shravana Belagolā, Chandragupta committed Sallekhanā / Santhārā (Ritual suicide by Starvation).
Bindusāra (298-272 BC)
He was son of Chandragupta Maurya. In Greek sources he is mentioned as Amichocottus sounding similar to his title Amitraghatakam (Killer of Enemies). He had cordial relations with Seleucid King Antiochus.
Antiochus sent two ambassadors to his court - Deimachos and Dionysius. During his rule, a Greek traveller named Iambulus came to India and wrote about India. His accounts are also exaggerated and unbelievable like Ctesias.
Bindusāra launched the invasion in Deccan Region and conquered till lower Deccan. This Southern Invasion by Mauryan Empire is mentioned in Sangam Literature (Mauryans mentioned as Moriār).
Bindusāra was follower of Ajivika sect and was disciple of an Ajivika Monk Pingalavatsa
Ashoka (268-232 BCE)
Mauryan Civil War (272-268 BCE)
100 sons of Bindusāra fought a Civil War among themselves.
Ashoka won by killing all his brothers (Sushima was chosen by Bindusāra) except one Vishtashoka / Tissā.
Kalinga War (268-262 BCE)
After his coronation, Ashoka launched invasion of Kalinga and after a long war he conquered Kalinga.
According to Buddhist Literature, Ashokavadāna, Ashoka renounced warfare and violence after Kalinga War by adopting Buddhism. He even changed many of his policies.
Minor Rock Edicts of Ashoka proves that although he changed his policies after Kalinga War, however he was already a Buddhist during his coronation.
Change in policies of Ashoka after Kalinga War
Chandashoka (Violent and Cruel Ashoka) to Dhammashoka (Moral and Righteous Ashoka)
Bherighosa (threatening neighbouring kingdoms by military power) to Dhammaghosa (conveying moral actions to neighbouring kingdoms) (Bheri - War Trumpet, Ghosa - Sound)
Digvijay (conquering neighbouring kingdoms) to Dhammavijay (moral victory over neighbouring kingdoms by making alliance)
Vihāryātrā (pleasure tours by Ashoka) to Dhammayātra (tours of Ashoka to pilgrimage centres of Buddhism).
Dhammamahāmātra (officers appointed by Ashoka to ensure that people live moral and righteous life)
Dhamma Prachāraka (ambassadors sent by Ashoka to spread Buddhism to neighbouring kingdoms). Example - He sent his son Mahendra and daughter Sanghamitrā to Sri Lanka as Dhamma Prachāraka.
This change of policy by Ashoka is now identified as his Dhamma Policy.
Views on Ashokan Inscriptions and his Dhamma Policy
When Ashoka mentions Dhamma, is he talking about purely morality or about Buddhism? (Example - He is asking his people to follow Dhamma)
Ashoka’s emphasis on morality was purely his conviction for morality or it was a tool to consolidate and bring stability in empire.
Perhaps his morality is rooted in Buddhism
Although Buddhist Literature and Ashokan Inscriptions claim that he renounced violence, it is highly doubtful that Ashoka became absolutely Pacific -
According to Ashokavadāna, Ashoka killed 18000 Jains / Ajivika for a painting.
He even burnt a family alive for disrespecting Buddhism.
He expelled 60000 Buddhist Monks on the first day of Third Buddhist Council.
He kept the army intact.
In his separate edict, he threatened people of Kalinga that they will have to co-operate with authority.
Even his Dhammamahāmātra are sometimes considered as a tool of oppressive Morality.
Contact of Ashoka with Greek Kings
Five Greek Kings mentioned in Ashokan Inscriptions (Ashoka exchanged Embassies) - Antiochus, Ptolemy of Egypt, Māgus of Northern Egypt, Alexander and Antigonus - Greece and North of Macedonia
In Ashokan Inscriptions, distance between India and Greece is described exactly correct.
Ashoka ordered his Greek Minister Tushāra to add Canals in Sudarshan Lake.
Ashoka and non-Buddhist Sects
Ashoka donated group of four caves to monks of Ajivika sect. This cave complex is known as Barābar Caves (Jehānābad, Bihār).
According to Mahāyāna Literature, Ashoka was follower of Upagupta.
According to Hīnayāna Literature, Ashoka was follower of Mogaliputta Tissā
Pushyamitra Shunga (185-150s CE)
He was military general of last Mauryan King Brihadratha whom he assassinated.
He is mentioned in Ayodhyā Prashasti of Dhanadeva (later Shunga King) as Senāpati Pushp(y)amitra.
Prashasti = An Eulogic (praiseful) inscription. | Charitta = An Eulogic biography (book).
Even in Mudrārākshas of Vishākhdutta, he is mentioned as Senāpati Pushyamitra.
Pushyamitra belonged to Brahmin Varna (according to Vishnupurāna) and was follower of Hinduism/Brahmanism. (Mauryans were followers of Shramanic Sects)
Pushyamitra transferred capital from Patliputra to Ayodhya (referred to as Sāket in Buddhist sources).
Vidishā was another capital of Shunga Dynasty. (In Bhārhut and Sānchi, Shunga is referred to Shugnā Dynasty.)
Shunga Dynasty used Sanskrit Language in their administration and inscriptions while Mauryans used Magadhan Prakrit Language.
Pushyamitra introduced Brahmanic Law codes in Justice System and Society.
According to Micheal Witzel, earliest compilations of Manusmriti were composed soon after Mauryan Age, perhaps under Pushyamitra Shunga.
Pushyamitra was contemporary and rival of Indo-Greek king Menāndar (Indian Sources call him Milinda). Menāndar was follower of Buddhism.
Coronation of Pushyamitra was conducted by a Sanskrit Scholar / Priest - Patanjali. Patanjali was author of a book of Sanskrit Grammar - Mahābhāshya.
According to Mahābhāsya, Pushyamitra conducted two Ashwamedha Yajna and in both the cases, horse was caught by Yavanas (Greeks) perhaps Menāndar. Pushyamitra sent his son Agnimitra in first case and Grandson Vāsumitra in second case to get back the horse.
Section I – Rise of Magadha
Rajagriha Rising
Ruler: Bimbisāra
Objective: Unite Magadha’s tribal chiefs and fortify Rajagriha.
Mechanic: Start with a village, persuade/defeat neutral tribes → gradual buildup.
Marriage Diplomacy
Objective: Secure alliances through marriage with Kosala and Lichchhavis.
Mechanic: Escort missions + tribute collection to unlock alliances.
Ajātshatru’s Coup
Objective: Seize power from your father (Bimbisāra) and rivals.
Mechanic: Small rebel army → stealth/conversion style mission (like Dracula 1).
Eh, I want to see a lot of Rome, and I think there’s a ton you can get out of Rome, way more than just one Punic Wars DLC, but I do think the Diadochi Wars should come first. But between Rome’s fighting in Gaul, Britain, Germania, Dacia, Armenia, the middle east, not to mention Rome solidifying their control over the Italian Peninsula, there’s far more to cover than just one DLC-worth for Rome, unless you add 10 civs and like a 50-level campaign…but even 50 could be a low number, given we just got 18 on Alexander alone.
I have to wonder if they feel an urgency to get to Rome for business-related reasons, but, like I said above, I would like to see Diadochi first with Selucids, Ptolmaic Egypt, and some third civ (not sure what the third would be, there are options) before moving on to Rome. Ptolmaic Egypt could be used later on with Rome as well, maybe throw Parthia as the third because they could be used as well
Ideally about the Diadochoi, maybe they could make the 1st campaign about Antigonos, then the 2nd about Seleukos or one of his successors. Antiochos I could be good. 3rd I’d put Ptolemy IV with his victory over the Seleukids at Raphia. Or with they could make the campaigns about those dynasties themselves rather than one single ruler.
This however would mean that the civs would be dynasties, much like 3K, so that could be controversial, unless for chronicles it isn’t a problem.
I haven’t yet bought or played the Alexander DLC but I saw it heavily hints at Rome so it’s unlikely they will go in this direction though.
When speculating Chronicles 2 I really thought they were gonna make a rise of Thebes campaign (and Thebans civilization) as the first campaign of this DLC, a bridge to explain what happened between the end of BfG and the start of Alexander. But I suppose they didn’t wanna overload it with too many Greek civs.
Chronicles has the Achaemenids, a dynastic civilization. If they may be able to continue until the late antiquity, they may have to add the Sasanids, another Iranian/Persian dynasty unlike regular AoE2 where we have only the Persians to cover lots of different dynasties ranging from the same Sasanids to Safavids. I purposefully excluded the Parthians since people can easily argue they were a different civilization.
I would like for them to go through each era methodically but I imagine for time and budget reasons they will want to skip some things to get to the more popular factions. i.e Rome
It is based on the ‘Rome at war’ mod Afterall, romans are probably what they’ve been waiting to get to
I’ll just be happy to get another chronicles dlc, whatever it covers
I was honestly surprised that the first Chronicles was about Greece and not Rome considering they came from the Rome at War mod.
But people here always assume greed is the only reason why developers would every do something they personally don’t like, they never consider that the developers might just like the topic themselves.
I still want a prequel DLC. About Neo-Assyrian Empire and Cyrus The Great. It could be Chronicles:The First Empire. Effect of that conflict is pretty big and effected biblical stories as a whole.
For sure, but I think you can still tell Roman stories by showing it from another perspective. You can have a section about Caesar’s invasion of Gaul, but have a lot of it played as Gaul and shown from the Gallic perspective, just interspersing a few scenerios where you play as Rome in there, for example.
I’m honestly surprised how many people here like the Diadochi, I expected a more even split.
There are multiple game series that are only set within Japan or China where you only play different factions in those countries. There are like a lot of them.
How many games are there that focus on Rome? Not that many. Is there any game where all factions are just different Roman generals in a civil war? Games like Total War Rome have so many other factions in them that Rome just becomes one amongst many.