[Poll] Where to Next in Europe?

What sort of landmarks in Spain (my Spanish knowledge is literally only Barcelona and American conquests from Mysterious Cities of Gold :wink: ) ?

Also weirdly no mention Westminster Cathedral or Notre Dame for English or French :clown_face:

Portuguese cities that are near Spain (like Faro for example) receive a lot of spanish tourist, so you’ll find often that some staff may speak some spanish. Also both languages having roots in latin helps a lot.
In spanish schools is more usual to learn english or french as second or third language

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Bit weird as in Italian and Latin its refered to as Napoli and such.

But yeah I thought that Sicily and Naples were considered seperate due to Aragon invading but appeariantly Sicily was also the name for Naples.

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The only cultural artifacts Portugal has in common with Castille, were Catholicism, Latin based laguage, and Visigoth ancestry.
By the year 800, when this game starts, the Iberian microstates all already had completely divergent cultures.
What language would teh units even speak? What would be the army compositions?
These were WILDLY different. Even teh social structures were different.

For example:
-Portugal centralized power much earlier, and the military was dependent on every civilian being practiced in handling arms, even the lower clerical class. Almost everyone had a Crossbow, and even young girls had to know how to aim and reload one, effectively, because the country’s forces were constantly outnumbered by every opponent.
This also lead to a much weaker Nobility class than in Spain, which was covered by the many Military-Religious Orders that were spread out in the country. Many villages and cities were lorded over by Monks, rather than Noblemen, because the constantly armed people respected the authority of God, not of land or title owners.
These very Religious Orders, because they lacked a proper warrior class like in Spain and Cordoba (and the rest of the world, really) instead invested in innovation and literacy, so the few people they ruled over could at least compensate for their numerical inferiority and lack of professional troops, with advanced weapons and tactics.
This lead to the whole country developing a single common language, much faster than Spain, for example, and also to Portugal Tech Boom in the later stages of the Medieval period.

Spain was a land of Knights and Barons, Portugal was a land of Militias and Templars. That is way too different to keep in just one civ. And that is just one example.

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In Portugal, almost everyone speaks English as a natural second language, not even needing school for it. Another huge cultural difference, as we were always closer to Asia and the Anglosphere, while Spain was always closer to Europe.

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I would like to see the Magyars added. Could be difficult due to the massive transition they made from living nomad/steppe style to a more traditional kingdom around 1000. Maybe a civ oreinted towards light cavalry and some bonuses to raiding and food gathering, or some weird/wacky/unique age up bonuses to represent this change that they went through

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For the majority of the Kingdoms of Spain, sure, since they eventually coalesce into it.

For Portugal, HELL NO!

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Hungarians are Magyars and yeah would work well like that :wink:

no not really, they would be more nomadic in age 1 and 2 and by 3 and 4 they will be like other Euro kingdoms

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Yes, i am aware of the cultural diferences bewteen Portugal and Spain. My suggestion is only because the devs said that they wanted to make the civs unique between them and that they were gonna be less than in age 2. I’ll rather have both cultures in one go over choosing only one of them, leaving room for other parts of the world to be added whitout having to cut any part of the rich cultures that coexisted in the peninsula. In an ideal world (and my preference) both civs will be separated.

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imo it is possible to have a lot of civs, but they would need much more time to make most of them somewhat balanced and balance patches will be a nightmare

but it is still possible

First DLC will be ERE vs Turks I think. They are both missing most evidently. Than it depends on how many civs we will get in one dlc. If 3 than we can get Venice or Hungary also.

Hungary can start as nomad civ same as Mongols but morph to normal European one. Would be cool.

But they promised us another Indian civilisation and that complicates things.

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In my biased opinion I would love to see Portugal.

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I would rather just get on of them, even if Portugal gets left out. It is just too different to lump in together.
The differences were not just cultural, but even the government and power of the Church were completely different.

Castille was much more like any other European kingdom of the time, while Portugal was a Techno-Religious nation, in which even the king had almost no power, unless he kept invoking Scripture to justify his decisions.
To the Medieval Portuguese, only Jesus was the actual king, which is why the Templar Order survived in the country, even against the mandate of the Catholic Church, as they dubbed themselves “Order of the Christ”.

Spain was a patchwork of cultures and even still is today, while Portugal became a heavily centralized monoculture very quickly, due to widespread Church education and a weak Nobility. That is why it became the worl’d first Nation-State.

In fact, after D.Sebastiao died against the Moroccans, the 2 kingdoms unified precisely because the Portuguese Nobility wanted the same power and rights as their Spanish counterparts, which was very much against the previous system, and backfired in the end (Spanish Nobles just started taking possessions in Portugal, because the unified king preffered his Spanish subjects, which lead to a massive Restoration War only 60 years into the whole affair).

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I would say that the Religious military orders had the true power. Most of the upper clergy and the high nobility had little power. Another curiosity, did you guys know that the rabbi of Lisbon would always be chosen to be the Treasurer of the Kingdom ever since Afonso I? He had so much power and his advice was so sought after, that he managed to postpone the coronation of King Duarte.

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We will eventually get American civs though. Despite what one may think about such a decision they are massively popular and known. Its same as with Japan.

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if they want to ruin the game and history yes

No one is against Japan and they wil lmake sense at least

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I did know that. A few of the Templar brough Jews from the Holy Land, which settled in, and became the Royal Treasury itself, as an institution.

And yes, the Military-Religious Orders had more power than the Crown and Papacy put together, most of the kings being members of the Templar families, in one way or the other, and educated by them.

It is why Portugal avoided the mess of the 1600s and 1700s in Europe, with all the Faith Wars.

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This game will die before any DLC-s.

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Personally, I think that you have to be careful in choosing them in the case of future European civs.

We absolutely need 7 European civs: Byzantium, Italy, one Spanish civ, Portugal, Hungary, Poland and one Scandinavian civ. This way we would have 11 European civs.

In this vote, I have chosen the 7 most necessary civs for this game.

Of course, it would be nice to see the other civs, but you have to remember that they have to be asymmetrical - above 11 civs can be difficult with that. I also don’t want this game to have civs count problem like AoE 2.

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Serbia should be rather than Croatia. but I don’t think any of those two should be in the game

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