Polynesians: In Concept and Practice

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Aloha,
Here’s my altered Polynesian civ:

Polynesians:
Infantry, Siege, and Naval Civilization
Polynesians

-Lumberjacks carry +10, fell trees in one strike.
-All units +(10/20/30)% Hit Points in Feudal/Castle/Imperial
-Infantry immune to bonus damage and armor reduction.
-Gillnets, Sappers, and Siege Engineers Free
-Siege units 15% faster.

Team Bonus: Ships +3 LOS

Unique Technologies:
Seafaring

Seafaring: Military ships can transport units, carry +10.
175 W 175 F

Haka: Infantry and Skirmishers +2 attack.
550 F 450 G

Unique Units:
Koa Warrior: Infantry with high hit points and attack, above average speed and attack rate, and low armor.

Koa Warrior Stats

HP:88 (with Polynesian HP bonus) Speed: 1.15 Attack: 14 Bonus: +2 vs. Eagles Armor: 0/4 Attack Rate 1.9 TT 12 Seconds
70F F 30 G
Elite:
HP:117 Speed: 1.20 Attack: 16 Bonus: +2 vs. Eagles Armor: 0/6 Attack Rate 1.9
70F F 30 G

Wa’a Kaulua: Long range ship that fires stones, effective for coastal bombardment. Available after researching Chemistry.

Wa'a Kaulua Stats

HP:156 Speed: 1.3 Attack: 36 Range: 10 Bonus: +120 vs. Buildings: Attack Rate 6.9
120 W 120 G

Missing Techs: Gunpowder and Cavalry related units/techs, Blast Furnace, Plate Mail Armor, Chain Mail Armor, Ring Archer Armor, Fortified Wall, Treadmill Crane, Hoardings, Architecture, Arrowslits, Careening, Heavy Demo Ship, Fast Fire Ship.

Polynesians Description

The Polynesians are a closely related group of Oceanic peoples who settled on various islands in the Pacific, largely encompassed within the triangle of Rapa Nui, Hawaii, and New Zealand. While lacking some of the staples of other civilizations, such as metallurgy, the Polynesians showed themselves to be fierce, powerful warriors with an impressive mastery of battlefield tactics. They also developed highly advanced navigation techniques that allowed them to master the sea in a way that other civilizations would not for many hundreds of years. This likely allowed them to reach South America, as evidenced by several clues, such as similar words for the sweet potato “Kumar/Kumara,” a number of cultural similarities to the Mapuche, and recently, genetic evidence.

Polynesians’ Hit Point bonus makes all their units more robust in early-midgame, but this falls off in Imperial Age due to their missing many blacksmith technologies. However, their infantry are also immune to bonus damage of any kind, so they are not countered particularly well by anti-infantry specialists, such as Hand Cannoneers, Slingers, or Cataphracts.

Will attach a playable scenario file at some point.

2

I feel that you tend to overload bonuses and UTs’ effects in your civ concepts…

3 Likes
3

Your not the only one.

4

Ive actually never checked but is gillnets available and age earlier for burgundians? (The food discount does apply)

5

On the one hand, you have a point. Some things should probably be pared down, which is part of the function of this thread, based on community feedback. Although beyond the Imp UT being a little wordy, this civ is only marginally more “loaded” than Teutons.

One the other hand, I find that many repliers tend to offer low value critiques that get hung up on fairly minor issues, or only offer negativity/dislike without even a hint of a recommendation of how that might be solved (often both). To each his own of course, but I find it rather scrubby to even bother replying if that’s the best commentary you can give. Then again, I guess it will always be easier to be some glib internet “Reply Guy” than offer useful critiques, much less create anything yourself.

Yeah, although considering most people probably would not know that and/or choose Burgundians for that, I’m not worried about partial overlap.

1 Like
6

He creates civs that have to have gigantic holes in their tech trees so he kinda has to do that to compensate.

7

I get the idea of absurd health offset by abysmal smithing (no Castle age infantry armor and no Imp smithing besides bracer) but even with extra health you are in trouble against archer civs. Archer civs with something to deal with your onagers are even scarier.

For reference a 93 HP Champion vs a standard FU champ it takes 12 Arb shots to kill them. It takes 14 amount to kill the standard champion.

The problem with the sharper than Aztec plummet off the cliff is that this civ isn’t strong to start and lacks any good eco bonus to get them started the way Aztecs and Mayans do. The wood bonus is nice but that’s a long term Bonus the way the Malians are weaker with conservation over gather speed for early game.

8

You probably both missed my Toltec thread. Now that I think about it though, I’m pretty sure that some responders aren’t really interested in civ design in general, and only seem to reply to a civ thread when they think they need to dunk on it for whatever reason. Shouldn’t surprise me; the cheap dopamine and upvote incentives are there.

Also, congratulations, you just defined American Civs (which nearly all of mine are). This is even more true if you don’t want their tech trees to all be clones of each other (Arbalest, Eskirm with a UT that makes it special, EEW with a UT that makes it Special, Siege Ram, Bad Navy, etc)

Wow, an actual good-faith critique that actually engages with the design in a useful way, and it only took seven posts to get here :upside_down_face:. Watch and see how it’s done bois.

I somewhat agree, but don’t think this will really be an issue until Imp. Poly Eskirms vs. an FU arb end with 7 HP vs 15 for a generic Eskirm, which isn’t amazing, but they still are okay in that role.
Having more HP/speed on their siege should help them a lot vs. archers. I may consider giving them the final archer armor, but remove Chemistry, although that risks making their Arbs too weak. I’ll have to stew on this and do some experiments. As for their infantry, I’m okay with them being slightly worse vs archers since that’s their weakest matchup anyway. That said, I should probably buff the pierce armor, possibly even the speed of the Maori Warrior; as a UU it’s an opportunity to deviate from the low-armor norm and cover the civ’s weaknesses.

I agree and view this as a more impactful concern than the armor/Hp tradeoff. The instant chop does help them collect a bit faster, but it’s fairly minor. I also feel that some type of fish bonus is essential for a Polynesian civ, and I don’t really want to add another eco bonus. TBH I think your idea of woodcutters generating a percentage of food would be appropriate here, both in terms of usefulness as well as historicity, as the Polynesians used coconut trees for food, lumber, medicine, etc. But I don’t want to steal your bonus except as a last resort; for now, I’ll consider some other way to boost their economy.

9

Alright, here are some changes:

-Minimum range aspect of siege bonus removed
-Gillnet bonus replaced with fish, berries and hunt lasting 20% longer. (I may change Hunt to Farms if this is too strong).
-Wood Bonus replaced with +8 Carry for lumberjacks
-Team Bonus increased to +3 LOS
-LOS effect removed from Seafaring, Wa’a Kaulau now available after Chemistry.
-Kahuna Nui replaced with Haka: (Infantry and Skirmishers attack 20% faster)
-Maori warrior +2 PA, +5 Gold Cost, -5 Food Cost, -1 Attack for Elite.
-Added Heresy and Sanctity.
-Reduced HP bonus slightly.

Updated in OP

Edit: Also, I think the civ’s strength vs archers is fine now without Ring Archer Armor. Their Elite Skirms were already better than a generic civ that lacks Bracer or Ring Armor, and now the Imp tech helps them kill archers faster. Plus Elite Maori Warriors now have decent pierce armor.

10

This is a better name for the foot uu

The Ancient Koa Warrior. Koa warriors were an important part of ancient Hawaiian society. They served to protect lands, natural resources and the rightful status of the ruling chiefs . They were the frontline fighters when disputes erupted.

11

You probably think what you think because I criticized your Muiscas concept for not having enough techs but I think this one has enough techs and the bonuses to compensate what it lacks (and yes I knew “gigantic holes” defines new world civs tech tree 11)

Speaking of compensating, seafaring is kinda like dry dock cheaper and one age earlier, isn’t there a way to just put the tech one age earlier and use another UT?

12

what does immune against armor reduction mean? just anti-obuch?

Redundant bonus Drill.

Redundant bonus as Mayans

Redundant bonus as Japanese and Dravidians

Its ok to have 1 or 2 bonuses that’s similar to another civ but the whole civ seems to be a cocktail made from other civs.

Also 20% extra hp on knights and bloodlines is just crazy strong.

13

Pretty sure they dont get cavalry.

1 Like
14

I came across this initially but opted for Maori since I wanted to represent different Polynesian Islands in the civ, but I guess this change would be fine since I’ve replaced the Hawaiian Kahuna tech with the Maori Haka.

To be clear, that comment was more directed at replies like Martinurello’s, where he starts the discussion off on a dismissive and unhelpful note but AFAIK hasn’t given any useful commentary on any of the other civ threads that would make me think he’s interested in civ design generally. (And a couple people hopped on that bandwagon for this thread.) No need to dwell on it though. Your critiques in my other threads have mostly been useful; while I think some people could have been more open-minded about some aspects of the Muisca, the criticisms of its overall weakness in the first few iterations were valid.

I’m sort of okay with this being boring, given the radical baseline of the civ with its HP bonus. I designed it that way since Polynesians miss Careening (otherwise their Castle Age War galleys are probably too oppressive with +20% HP and the +1 armor). So I’d think of this more as a buffed version of careening minus the armor.

Yes, Obuch doesn’t reduce its armor. The bonus damage immunity also means they don’t take the extra damage from Leitis or Wootz Steel.

Bonus vs tech and smaller effect. Not worried about it.

Eh, you got me here, I think in my revision I did add a couple things that were too similar to other civs.
I’ll change the Haka effect to +2 attack. I also think the lumberjack bonus can be boosted slightly, and will be decent enough that I can revert back to a fish-based bonus for their other eco bonus. I’ll go with Free Gillnets in Castle Age.

Changelog:
-Haka Changed to +2 attack, cost decreased.
-Food bonus changed to free gillnets
-Lumberjack bonus increased to +10
-Maori Warrior renamed to Koa Warrior

Updated in OP. I feel pretty good about where the civ is at right now.

Edit: Actually, I’m going to make Seafaring a little more interesting by changing it to allow all military ships to carry units.

15

ooops I didn’t realise the HP bonus is for every unit and there isn’t even careening :sweat_smile: