POOLS about BALANCE in the next patches:

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 10:51am

I’m just curios to see what is the general thoughts about the incoming patches regarding the balance changes, so here there are some pools, to have a more clearer picture. Mainly the pool regard the general status of the civ and with a small focus on UU.
Each poll allow you to choose between 1 and 3 option, so choose carefully. You don’t have to use all 3 possibilities.
There are 9 pools, I know it’s a bit long, but try to answer to all of them.

1 - What will be in your opinion the civs that most likely (not the one you think you need the most) will get a balance change:

Aztecs
Berbers
Britons
Bulgarians
Burmese
Byzantine
Celts
Chinese
Cumans
Etiopians
Franks
Goth
Huns
Incas
Indians
Italians
Japanese
Kmer
Koreans
Lithuanians
Magyars
Malay
Malians
Mayans
Mongols
Persians
Portoghese
Saracens
Slavs
Spanish
Tartars
Teutons
Turks
Vietnamese
Vikings

0 voters

2 - What will be the civs that will most likely receive a general BUFF (regardless of the civs you think should receive one)?

Aztecs
Berbers
Britons
Bulgarians
Burmese
Byzantine
Celts
Chinese
Cumans
Etiopians
Franks
Goth
Huns
Incas
Indians
Italians
Japanese
Kmer
Koreans
Lithuanians
Magyars
Malay
Malians
Mayans
Mongols
Persians
Portoghese
Saracens
Slavs
Spanish
Tartars
Teutons
Turks
Vietnamese
Vikings

0 voters

3 - What will be the civs that will most likely receive a general NERF (regardless of the civs you think should receive one)?

Aztecs
Berbers
Britons
Bulgarians
Burmese
Byzantine
Celts
Chinese
Cumans
Etiopians
Franks
Goth
Huns
Incas
Indians
Italians
Japanese
Kmer
Koreans
Lithuanians
Magyars
Malay
Malians
Mayans
Mongols
Persians
Portoghese
Saracens
Slavs
Spanish
Tartars
Teutons
Turks
Vietnamese
Vikings

0 voters

4 - What will be the civs that, in your opinion, should receive a BUFF in the next patch, or in the one that will follow?

Aztecs
Berbers
Britons
Bulgarians
Burmese
Byzantine
Celts
Chinese
Cumans
Etiopians
Franks
Goth
Huns
Incas
Indians
Italians
Japanese
Kmer
Koreans
Lithuanians
Magyars
Malay
Malians
Mayans
Mongols
Persians
Portoghese
Saracens
Slavs
Spanish
Tartars
Teutons
Turks
Vietnamese
Vikings

0 voters

5 - What will be the civs that, in your opinion, should receive a NERF in the next patch, or in the one that will follow?

Aztecs
Berbers
Britons
Bulgarians
Burmese
Byzantine
Celts
Chinese
Cumans
Etiopians
Franks
Goth
Huns
Incas
Indians
Italians
Japanese
Kmer
Koreans
Lithuanians
Magyars
Malay
Malians
Mayans
Mongols
Persians
Portoghese
Saracens
Slavs
Spanish
Tartars
Teutons
Turks
Vietnamese
Vikings

0 voters

6 - What will be the Unique Unit that will most likely receive a general BUFF (regardless of the UU you think should receive one)?

Jaguar Warrior
Camel Archer
Genitour
Longbowman
Konnik
Arambai
Cataphract
Woad Raider
Chu Ko Nu
Kipchak
Shotel Warrior
Throwing Axeman
Huskarl
Tarkan
Kamayuk
Slinger
Elephant Archer
Imperial Camel Rider
Genoese Crossbowman
Condottiero
Samurai
Ballista Elephant
War Wagon
Turtle Ship
Leitis
Magyar Huszar
Karambit Warrior
Gbeto
Plumed Archer
Mangudai
War Elephant
Organ Gun
Caravel
Mameluke
Boyar
Conquistador
Missionary
Keshik
Teutonic Knight
Janissary
Rattan Archer
Imperial Skirmisher
Berserk
Longboat

0 voters

7 - What will be the Unique Unit that will most likely receive a general NERF (regardless of the UU you think should receive one)?

Jaguar Warrior
Camel Archer
Genitour
Longbowman
Konnik
Arambai
Cataphract
Woad Raider
Chu Ko Nu
Kipchak
Shotel Warrior
Throwing Axeman
Huskarl
Tarkan
Kamayuk
Slinger
Elephant Archer
Imperial Camel Rider
Genoese Crossbowman
Condottiero
Samurai
Ballista Elephant
War Wagon
Turtle Ship
Leitis
Magyar Huszar
Karambit Warrior
Gbeto
Plumed Archer
Mangudai
War Elephant
Organ Gun
Caravel
Mameluke
Boyar
Conquistador
Missionary
Keshik
Teutonic Knight
Janissary
Rattan Archer
Imperial Skirmisher
Berserk
Longboat

0 voters

8 - What will be the UU that, in your opinion, should receive a BUFF in the next patch, or in the one that will follow?

Jaguar Warrior
Camel Archer
Genitour
Longbowman
Konnik
Arambai
Cataphract
Woad Raider
Chu Ko Nu
Kipchak
Shotel Warrior
Throwing Axeman
Huskarl
Tarkan
Kamayuk
Slinger
Elephant Archer
Imperial Camel Rider
Genoese Crossbowman
Condottiero
Samurai
Ballista Elephant
War Wagon
Turtle Ship
Leitis
Magyar Huszar
Karambit Warrior
Gbeto
Plumed Archer
Mangudai
War Elephant
Organ Gun
Caravel
Mameluke
Boyar
Conquistador
Missionary
Keshik
Teutonic Knight
Janissary
Rattan Archer
Imperial Skirmisher
Berserk
Longboat

0 voters

9 - What will be the UU that, in your opinion, should receive a NERF in the next patch, or in the one that will follow?

Jaguar Warrior
Camel Archer
Genitour
Longbowman
Konnik
Arambai
Cataphract
Woad Raider
Chu Ko Nu
Kipchak
Shotel Warrior
Throwing Axeman
Huskarl
Tarkan
Kamayuk
Slinger
Elephant Archer
Imperial Camel Rider
Genoese Crossbowman
Condottiero
Samurai
Ballista Elephant
War Wagon
Turtle Ship
Leitis
Magyar Huszar
Karambit Warrior
Gbeto
Plumed Archer
Mangudai
War Elephant
Organ Gun
Caravel
Mameluke
Boyar
Conquistador
Missionary
Keshik
Teutonic Knight
Janissary
Rattan Archer
Imperial Skirmisher
Berserk
Longboat

0 voters

Geojak92 · May 24, 2020, 12:40pm

A bit too many similar questions. Next patch/this patch. What does it matter when I believe unit xxx need to be buffed/nerfed if it happens sooner or later?

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 12:56pm

Some questions are similar yes, but they look at different things.
For example some ask what balance changes, in you opinion, the devs will implement, others ask for what balance changes you would like to see, the purpose is to get both you personal preferences and your perception of the direction where the balance is going.
As for “this patch” or “the next patches”, I included both because I didn’t want to limit the discussion about the patch of this moth, for the changes the one would like to se in general, maybe one hopes for a specific buff, but he doesn’t think it will come in the may update.
However thanks for the feedback, probably I could have used a different wording, if I will make another pool I will consider you feedback.

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 1:12pm

Please don’t discouss the results or you choises under here, it’s just because I don’t want to risk to bias other people who still have to start the questionnaire, I want to have their genuine opinion.
It would mean a grat deal if you can edit/delete you post you can still discuss your ideas on other topics.

EDIT: Thanks @Parthnan

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 1:16pm

Also, please, consider to link this pools in other discussions and, if you are able or have the opportunity, on outside of the forum too, to anyone who like AoE, the more people we reach, the better it is.

IRCketchUP · May 24, 2020, 2:12pm

Why dont we just check the civ win rates instead?

Parthnan · May 24, 2020, 2:13pm

Winrates are not a good measure of nerfing/buffing , as we collectively taught @MatCauthon3 and @JonOli12
Pickrates mattter heavily too
Civ matchups are the key in the data
You cannot generalize winrates so easily as it is MULTIVARIATE data

Plus, if you are still not convinced, just the fact that there are 600+ civ matchups possible but each civ has only 100-200 1650+ ELO games analyzed on the aoestats.io site
so imagine how empty that table of civ matchups is

Parthnan · May 24, 2020, 2:16pm

I like that too, and the pattern I noticed was the Mongol and Mayan winrate is consistently above 52% despite pickrates 10 times many other civilizations.

MatCauthon3 · May 24, 2020, 2:17pm

False. Still disagree with you on winrates being bad. Winrates are good with enough of a sample size.

Parthnan · May 24, 2020, 2:18pm

Explanation for why Winrates can’t be statistically meaningful right now:

If you could do a multivariate analysis with atleast 100 times the current sample size at 1650+ ELO, I would 100% definetly agree with you

But we never can , we would have to have patches once a decade for the data to be meaningful
that too AFTER normalizing for all civ matchups, because some matchups hardly ever happen in the sample data and others are too common within that data (like a hun war etc)

MatCauthon3 · May 24, 2020, 2:19pm

Last 2 patches thry have averaged 48% and 50% respectively. With over 1200 games played each in that time. So you’re factually wrong on the winrates.

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 2:22pm

Winrates, IF read and analized correctly can give us good insigts, but here, I want to take over the people feelings, what they think by playing the game, their direct experience as the least biases as possible from statistical datas.
It’s a different kind, another measure or point of view if you want, of reading the balance changes, and to see if the players can anticipate the changes, or viveversa, if the devs can make the changes that the people hopes for.

DoctBaghi · May 24, 2020, 2:25pm

As I already ask to @Parthnan, please avoid to discuss your opinions uders the pools, I would like to avoid that people who still have to finish the questionnaire would be biased by other comments, you can always comment on other topics.
@MatCauthon3 it would mean a great deal if you could delete/edit you post, so that other can’t read what you voted or your opinions before they voted themselves.

EDIT: Thank you @MatCauthon3

DoctBaghi · May 25, 2020, 8:50pm

Come on, let’s try to reach as much vote as we can before they release the may patch.