Popular AoE streamer Aussie_Drongo explains why the zoom level in AoM does more harm than good. This is always been an oversight in the Age franchise: https://youtu.be/8XudhSvCGPU?t=475
I want to preface this by saying that obviously Age of Empires is a different kind of RTS than Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3. There’s a reason why the zoom level is farther than in the Age Games. Blizzard intentionally capped the zoom level in Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, for both gameplay and visual reasons. They don’t want players the ability to see too much of the map, due to how the units interact with the map. However, a benefit ofhaving the game zoomed in is that you are able to see the intensity of the combat up close.
I am aware that the spectator modes of Starcraft II and Warcraft 3 allow you to zoom out farther than you can when you are actually playing, but in Age of Mythology Retold, you can currently zoom out so far that you’re able to see the entire map. While I understand that in Age games there is more happening all over the map due to the macro aspects of the games, it also leads to a situation where so much of the combat is unwatchable. This doesn’t just happen during casts, but also when players stream themselves playing the game. I am of the opinion that the zoom level should be capped. Spectators and new players can barely see the combat and fights that take place on the map due to the zoom level in these games. The excitement of the combat in AoM is one of its greatest strengths, and so much of this is lost due to people either casting or playing the game too zoomed out.
You can imagine a newcomer to AoM watching casted games or highlights, and then being utterly bored and dejected by the ant-size units fighting across the map. This is a downside to all Age games, and I believe an advantage that Starcraft 2 has in terms of spectating. The combat in Starcraft 2 is incredible and you are able to witness all of the explosions, laser beams, and gun fights in all of their glory both as a player and spectator. I’m not suggesting that AoM Retold should have the same zoom level as Starcraft 2, but it should be way closer both when playing and using the spectator mode.
It is called zoom for a reason. It is your fault if you zoom out too much.
I played most of the beta half zoomed in because that was the most convenient but I really don’t want to lose the ability to zoom out more.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to limit players abilities because some people can’t use those features correctly.
Also SC2 was made when barely anyone had FullHD, now a lot of people have 4k, Ultrawide or at least 1440p.
So fully zoomed out in 4K you still see more detail than when zoomed in in 720p.
I really don’t want them to artificially restrict player freedom because some people can’t handle it.
The inability to zoom out is an intentional design decision by Blizzard for Starcraft 2. It existed both for balance and gameplay reasons. They wanted players to see the action up close so they could show off the graphics and animations. The combat is what made for much of the excitement.
League of Legends and DOTA 2 are the same way. They heavily restrict the amount at which you can zoom out while playing. The spectator modes in SC2 and mobas also restrict the zoom level. The developers don’t want the units to look like ants while people are playing or spectating.
Age of Mythology Extended Edition is capped at much lower zoom than retold for players. It more closely reflects something like Starcraft 2, and it ultimately makes the combat/fights more exciting to watch. If you don’t restrict the zoom level, then players will zoom out, because the game essentially incentivizes you to do so.
A user on reddit shared this sentiment. "It was already hard watching Magic’s retold streams and tou can zoom out further still.
I am sure I am going to run into the issue where I see a streamer I wanna watch, only to realize I can’t see shit. And it’s going to be many of them.
I think casters like boit will probably realize this though."
If streamers zoom out to much then it’s a streamer problem.
The game has not even been out yet and streamers could not adapt to viewer feedback yet.
If most viewer want them to zoom in more they will quickly learn to do so to provide a better viewing experience, and getting an edge over their competition that zooms out more.
Most streamers likely play on big monitors while many viewers will watch on mobile devices or simply not have the stream on full screen.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to make the game objectively worse for everyone by limiting options just to teach some people how they should play.
I really hate my freedom being taken away because a small number of people can’t handle it.
Many streamers play to win. Zooming out gives them an advantage, that why so many do it.
You say that capping the zoom level makes the game objectively worse. Why?
Extended Edition had a zoom that was capped much lower. The spectator mode in EE was also much lower than what we have in Retold.
Starcraft II is the most popular RTS game and does not allow players to zoom out far. It’s largely a design decision to limit the zoom so much, and I do not think that using a zoom similar to AoE 2 in Retold is a good idea. They are not the same game, nor do I think what exists in AoE 2 is even a good thing to begin with.
There is a reason why Blizzard RTS and MOBAs have a restricted camera and zoom level. It’s to make the gameplay and spectating experience better. AoM Extended Edition didn’t let players zoom out so far, and this change to Retold could have dire consequences.
Your argument completely evolves around Streamers and comparisons to very different games.
Any game like Dota/lol only has you control 1 unit, that is totally different!
Stracraft 2 and came out 14 years ago! The average screen size was half as big, if even. Also the game has a lot less complex economy and reduced base building. The maps are designed to have a few narrow choke points, very different to AoM maps.
Warcraft 3 is even older and has a similarly restrictive map design.
The majority of players don’t want their gameplay to be much worse just so that other people can watch streamers better.
The people actually playing the game should be way way higher priority then the people just watching it.
I’m not advocating for a zoom level that’s the same as Starcraft II or League of Legends. I realize these are all different games. However, the issue of the zoom level in Retold isn’t just about watching streamers. It’s about watching any type of content related to the game whether it be replays, videos, or screenshots.
The other major issue is that the game highly incentivizes players to zoom out. It’s an advantage that deprives players who want to see the high detail of the graphics and animations. What is the point of having all of these amazing graphics and animations if players are just going to be zoomed out so far?
You really think that the developers of this game want players advertising and showing off the game while zoomed all the way out? There is a reason why Blizzard capped the zoom level on SC2. Many valid reasons in fact. This is a huge oversight by the Retold team. I’m not saying that the default max zoom level of Extended Edition is what we need, but the current max zoom in Retold is going to do more harm than good.
I realize that some players like yourself might enjoy zooming far out, perhaps it could be restricted to only the campaign and custom games, but overall it could have some negative consequences for the longevity of the game. It shouldn’t be possible to zoom out that far in unranked and ranked mode at the very least.
When the first thing a new player sees when they check out AoM Retold is a far zoomed out camera with units that look like ants. We’ll that is not very exciting and not a good first impression. This is a real complaint from people new to the game and RTS genre. It’s one of the first things I’ve noticed people say.
Another overlooked issue with zooming out so far is that it makes the gameplay look slower.
I do think that gameplay is more important then visuals.
Currently the players have the free choice.
In a competitive multiplayer game people will obviously prioritize efficiency. You can see that to an extreme with some mods people use like small trees or even block mods that turn all resources into literal cubes.
Competitive multiplayer was never about immersion or realism.
The argument with the first impression also doesn’t really make sense. The developers can simply change the default zoom or put the advanced zoom behind a setting instead of completely removing the feature from the game for everyone.
Sugar is unhealthy so I’m going to your house and steal all your sugar and sweets from you to protect you from your wrong decisions!
Developers should not treat players like little children. Let players make their own decisions even if they are wrong.
I’m personally not afraid of them actually following your demands, even if a popular Streamer said something like that too.
The vast majority of people likes the ability to zoom out as far as they want and they would riot if it was removed.
I can promise you that a significant number of people would cancel their preorder or try to refund the game if this feature would be taken away from people. Even it it’s just a partial reduction in maximum zoom level.
I would argue that there should simply be no limit to the zoom until you can see the whole 1024x1024 max map size in it’s entirety, even it it kills every modern computer.
A lot of the content that exists for the game shows gameplay from the that is very zoomed out. If you allow players to do it, then will create content showcasing it.
Developers should do what is in the best interest of the game, even if it means restricting certain features.
Could you zoom out this far in the original AoM? Was it really a problem with the original game? Perhaps it was partially a design decision by the original devs as well.
What was the point of remastering the graphics, animations, and everything else if players just end up playing zoomed so far out that the entire map is visiible. Go watch the trailer and see how zoomed in everything is in the cinematic. Blizzard could have designed and balanced Starcraft II using a larger zoom, but they purposely wanted the fights and action to be up close. It was a central design element of the game, and was a huge reason for the game’s enduring success. Imagine if you could play League of Legends really far zoomed out. Any serious player would do it, and guess what, the game would have been way more boring to watch and less popular.
I can assure you that the massive negative impact of taking a beloved feature away is way way way worse then a slight improvement in marketability is.
Also many of those streamers, youtubers and other content creators that are currently using the far zoom to some degree would start publicly complaining about the feature being removed creating a lot of negative impressions out there which will also lead to less sales.
How about you just play the game yourself instead of watching other people play it.
There is an open beta this weekend.
The original game was designed for low resolution CRT monitors.
The far out zoom makes the gameplay look less exciting. Yes, it is true a lot of content creators and streamers are going to play the game zoomed out. I am aware that some players enjoy zooming out, but I standby saying that it’s bad thing for the health of the game and RTS genre as whole. AoE 2 allows you to zoom out to absurd distances, that’s part of the reason I think the Retold developers enabled it. However, I don’t think it was a good thing in AoE 2 and I definitely don’t think it suits Retold at all.
I think some people underestimate how important streamers and content creators are for games like Retold. It’s the majority of advertising the game will ever receive. People who are unfamiliar with the game and just see units the size of ants will be turned off by it. Age of Mythology is not a city builder or a turn based strategy game, the combat and spectacle of armies clashing is a huge part of the entertainment. As I mentioned before, zooming out also makes the game look slower. A lot of people equate slow with boring. Age of Mythology is an amazing game, but unfortunately I’ve personally encountered so many players whose first impression will be tarnished because they can’t see what’s going on.
Thing is though streamers will respond to feedback. It sounds like your argument comes mainly from the perspective of wanting to watch streamers, nothing wrong with that. But if their viewership want to witness the graphics and the action they’ll ask the streamers to keep a more narrow focus or alternatively move to a new streamer.
You shouldn’t really compare AOM to other RTS games though. Each were designed differently for different objectives. At the end of the day, AOE is a game about gods, so one could even argue that being able to view the battlefield from a “gods” perspective is thematic?
As for your argument re. The trailer, it’s a showcase trailer…of course they’re going to go in as far as possible to show off the graphics
Well many streamers are competitive and are going to use the zoom level that they are comfortable with. However, this isn’t just about watching streamers the zoom level effects all types of content, including how players interact with the game. I reiterate, why put so much effort into the graphics if the game is best played so far zoomed out?
Cos that’s how some people like to play. Some competitive players don’t want to play zoomed in, they play for the win and the tactics. Others prefer zoomed in, some casual, some not. There’ll be casual streamers who want to zoom in and there’ll be competitive who prefer the zoomed out. Just watch your preference, it doesn’t set any precedents as some (like myself) will always play more zoomed in cos I prefer it that way. Others won’t.
Better to have streamers play the game wrong then having them abandon in in favour of AoE3DE or AoE2DE which allow higher zoom levels.
Or having them publicly complaint about having a feature they loved removed from the game.
You have no idea how much people keep asking for the ability to zoom out more. It was the number 1 criticism of AoE4 on release.
It feels way way way worse to get something taken away then you already have then not having it in the first place.
So taking the zoom away would cause a massive uproar in the community. Calls for a boycott and so on.
And it would certainly lead to many people cancelling their preorder and not buying the game.
You can have the opinion that it would make the game look better but it’s impossible to change now.
Also AoE3DE (same engine) already has that zoom level too so people would always compare to that game and ask why they don’t get it in AoMR.
You are misinterpreting what Drongo proposed and wanted… He is fine with zoom, what he want’s is to have either hotkey to reset zoom to predefined level and setting for min, default & max zoom possible, maybe even additional hotkey for to switch between free zoom and restricted zoom levels… so everyone can customize as they see fit and avoid accidentally zooming to much out for their liking…
You aren’t understanding the issue with it. There are many issues with it that are covered in the original post. More options are not always good in a game. Limiting player choice is a good design decision often is the case.
This is not Age of Ants. It is Age of Mythology. We are here to watch the gods battle and summon armies in all their glory.