So we can agree using chinese balance as a reference point Portuguese seem to be in a worse spot and thus it is legitimate to try to find ways, maybe stumble around a little, to address or mitigate that fact.
Those are respectively Italians and malay bonuses.
I disagree, the faster techs along with the cheaper units allows them to better use their flexible tech tree. Their Drush into M@A is very good, since they donât need to gather gold and they tech into M@A faster.
From then on, they can go for a fast castle into a knight rush, or monk+Siege plus, which is really strong for them.
They arenât perfect, but they are more solid now, more than civs like koreans spanish or italians on arabia.
I would just give them small buffs, like buffing a bit more the faster research techs, or by giving them squires. Another idea would be to reduce the cost of arquebus.
i agree Portuguese is in worse spot then Chinese but that doesnât take much, seeing as Chinese is one of the best civs in the game. but the point is that Jack of all Trades does not necessarily make a bad civ. furthermore, I donât think Portuguese are as bad as their âoverall winratesâ reflect.
Portuguese are almost fine. We only need Squires, Arquebus and Elite Orjan Gun buff.
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Portuguese got a massive buff, let them to settle the meta and see, 30% fast researching techs is really useful, and borderline OP on water maps.
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i strongly disagree that they are solir or buffing just small thing would solve anything.
the winrates with confidence intervalls from the other post seems to indicate ports are still worse than italians and koreans too
Portuguese seem to me a very solid civ atm. No-gold drush, followed by a feudal age with with faster techs, +1 vill after WB, and cheaper archers.
In castle age they are even better, with cheaper knights, monks and siege, in addition to cheaper archers and faster techs.
Their tech tree is very versatile in imp with solid cavalry and infantry, paired with very good archers and siege, with a gold bonus which is crucial for 1v1.
Said this, they may still receive a small buff, even if unnecessary (they will not be OP in any case), but honestly it would make more sense for later TG stages. The best thing I see is, as someone has said, a buff to the UUâŠ
How about
- Can build Feitoria with build limit 1/2/3 in dark/ feudal/ castle age
- The generation rates per age are :
25% of normal rate in dark age
50% in feudal age
75% in castle age
100% in imperial age
Useless in open maps while also being massively overpowered in closed maps and team games
Feitoria is ok in my opinion. Even pros use it in the correct circumstances. Not need to change it.
I always have been fan of this change. However, i think the teambonus is very useful in teamgames, allowing you to skip the market in feudal.
There are far worse teambonuses.
The most buffable things:
- Organ gun (and gunpowder?)
- Maybe they could tray the research speed buff up to 50%, or make it 30%/40%/50% in dark/feudal/castle age
Remove the min range for the Elite version and buff the accuracy should be enough for Organ Gun. Squires should be included in Portuguese tech tree. Some stronger civs (eg. Chinese, Mongols, Berbers) should lose Squire instead of Portuguese. Arquebus should improve the projectile speed of all gunpowder units by certain percentage.
Stone-free outpost can be quite powerful against early aggression civs. It provides additional info besides the scout. You can know how many gold miners your opponents have and production of military units, hence predict the time of the aggression. Perhaps give Portuguese squires, organ gun and arquebus buff first and observe if they really need further buff.
2 Likes
They could buff the faster researching techs to 33% (from 30%). Because at the moment they save just 22 seconds, while a vill takes 25 seconds. With 33% they would save 25 seconds, same as a vill.
Squires were removed from their tech tree to make their halberdier+organ gun deathball (in those times) more vulnerable.
Without minimal range and with squires, once you have massed enough halbs and organ guns, opponent will have nothing to do against them if he doesnât have BBC or siege engineers Siege Onager, or Blockprinting monks. Remember that halbs are very easy to mass for Portuguese if they have built some feitorias, so they can spam them continuously without any issue. With squires, Portuguese also could reinforce their lines more easily.
Minimal range is not so bad when you have massed enough units, and set then in stand ground stance (just like when playing scorpions). Instead of running away the opponent, the organ gun fires a neighbour unit.
I would buff elite organ cannon speed a bit instead so it is easier to micro without letting infinite squires halb spam be a thing.
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Actually aquebus does increase the projectile speed of gunpowder units. This was a little bit op on release and the % increase has been nerfed to barely even noticeable ever since unless it was compeltely removed in de and not documented.
If they could revert some of the techs power that would be great, but it has been years of people (me⊠) asking for it. Maybe devs feel like it can not be buffed without being broken or itâs fine like it is.
It appears Devs generally barely touch gunpowder related balance.
Minimal range matter more for organ guns, since those extra bullets accuracy diminish very fast with range. Removing the minimum range could benefit elite organ guns more than it would for example scorpions as at point black their dps would be actually higher than shooting at another target furthee away.
Arquebus is good enough for Hand Cannoners. I tested it in the editor and they fail few shots when shooting at infantry that walks in perpendicular direction regarding the HC, so portuguese HCs kill infantry much faster than other HCs.
When firing at hussars, they fail more, but they deal so low damage to not infantry that it doesnât matterâŠ
With regards arquebus and BBC, I have not tested them, but I suspect it is good enough for sniping ramps and onagers.
Regarding BBT, if the BBT is in a chokepoint and fires to a big army, it impacts frequently with or without arquebus.
I have no opinions regarding arquebus and cannon galleons. My victories on water usually relies on BBT, caravels and Feitoria⊠I use cannon galleons when my enemy stops pushingâŠ
True, but when they are massed, all failed projectiles are enough to kill the unit. This is like an âarambai effectâ: they are better when massed because of the failed shots.
Actually quite the opposite.
I once faised a 60 FU organ guns vs 60 FU rattan battle. The organ guns are quite a bit more expensive, and the fĂŒgt was clumped up without micro just pattroled.
I was really shocked when the rattan massacred by Bois.
Later thinking about it made it clear. It is the organ guns overkill all low fire rate. The eattans have worse stats but when massed up they just kill more units per second since they shot faster, and overkill less. The stray bullets of organs were far from helping.
Now if elite organ guns could get that 100% damage on missed shots like arambai, that would be great.
Since organ guns are much more expensive and slower than archers in imperial age when onagers are around they become even worse, especially when massed. You basically never want to mass organs, and always better to go archers (in imperial age). Also paladins reck imperial organ guns much worse than archers.
Organ guns are good in low numbers but disastrous ineffective massed (in imperial age)
In castle age organ guns fair much better against their counters and numbers are naturally smaller.
I thought their secondary projectiles had low damage, so it is irrelevant if they hit on a miss or not.
what is the damage input of a organ gun primary and secondary projectile?
However, rattans also have a lot of pierce armor. I dont know how would you have been with massed archers against themâŠ
The secondary bullet deals 2 damage ignoring armor if it hits the intended target. Additionally even when it hits there is a certain % that it doesnât do damage, this is the same as for mangonel extra stone projectiles.
I actually filed a bug report because I saw bullets hitting and dealing no damage, but this seems to be intendedâŠ
The main bullet behavois normally just like for handcannons.