Portuguese water bonus reshuffle and land buff

Defo agree. And that’s why i was for the Italian water nerf.


I could ask you the opposite. For instance no squires isn’t that big of a deal (like Khmer and Magyar lack that + last armour and their halbs work just fine). No light cav isn’t that big of a deal when you have BBC to snipe siege anyway.

I don’t like first crusade. Actually not many people do. And this is like mini first crusade for free. also I know this community and some people would complain this get them housed lmao

The explanation is likely that people don’t play agressively enough to use it. Just like people forget to take their bonus sheeps as Tatars. Or try to play Malay without caring about the age up bonus.

If the meat is rotten 58% of the time rather than 55% percent, it doens’t sound like it’s rotten more often than other meats.

Less than lacking armour or blast furnace, really. And those champions do work just fine too.

Well, not that I want to preach the status quo, but quite a lot of civs are unsavalvageable on water. Like the aforementioned Bulgarian. And it’s fine but lately people just want 50% winrate for everything, everywhere. Also it’s not people who are convinced Malay are an auto-loss on Arabia who will risk just even experimenting with a generic shipwright civ on water 11 They already don’t use civs like Berbers or Saracen who do work well on water. (props to Lyx for not being like that and winning with a landing as Indian against Portuguese)

This can go two ways: either it ends up toxic af cuz it’s such a swift landing that the enemy has to get walls + loom everytime against Ports and inevitably get behind. Or you do something like locking it behind a barracks and the additional expanses makes it not worth it as you give up pressure on their fishing eco.

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Well Viper said that Khmer and Vietnamese were fine before DE, even when the stats proved how stupidly weak were, and the Boyar being amazing at the A tier despite being underused, or Teutons melee armor being broken despite that isn’t.
Yes Pro opinions matter more, but aren’t always the final veredict.


We can try to buff their tech researching speed bonus.

  • 33% instead of 30%. Maybe useless buff

  • 40% instead of 30%. Maybe OP

  • 20% in dark age, 30% in feudal, 40% in castle, 50% in imp (or other numbers across all ages)

This dont affect their early game a lot but helps during castle age onwards. Water maps are affected too, but mainly in lategame.

And in closed maps, their fast imperial approach would be more viable

Like I said before. It would work like cuman mercs and not first crusade. The bonus needs to be compared to Ethiopians age up free resources, only this is only for milltia. You might have misunderstood the suggestion as I do not see how this is instant or can get you housed.

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I have answered this question in a post above were I went trough each age including imperial age.

But it is, according to teutons winrate.

I got a strong opinion on this topic and have made my change suggestion a few times. I think this is the wrong thread for it.

Of course its looked behind a barracks, as its like cuman merc. Did you even read ms original post properly :frowning:

Maybe you saw my crusader references forcthe historical backing of the bonus and read first crusade?

Anyway read it again, I clearly said Train for free, not instant spawn out of nowhere.

How many resources do Ethiopians actually gain? How many millotia can they train from that. This ports bonus would need to be just like that +1 extra since its not free resources that can be used for something else.

I suggest editing the original post to avoid future misunderstanding.


i like portuguese on water maps however i mostly play portuguese on diplomacy games where the games go to post imp and u have lots of gold and wood and this is where they lose due to missing shipwright. if u want to buff them in any way give them shipwright and also missing fast fires is also bad

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another new idea:

  1. New civ bonus: ballistics affects gunpoweder units
    under the hood this just makes it so portuguese unlock aqeuebus automatically by researching balllistics (requirres chemistry, to not unbalance castle aghe organs)
  2. Add a new imperial age UT that helps portugal only on land.
    Example idea: Carracks black sword, grant millitia line +1 meele armor and +1 damage.
    Carracks black sword - Wikipedia

turks, spanish, burgundians and italians get their gunpoweder bonus direclty aswell.

The thing with Portuguese is that in theory they always have a slight advantage over a generic civ. Such as: you can send your gold villager you need for a drush instantly to wood, you can have 7 on gold instead of 8 for double archery range production (this vill can go to farms instead, leading to a faster up time). Paired with the +30% faster research time they should always be ahead slightly. Problem is the other civ bonuses are almost always stronger than this although they are more specialised. Compared to e.g. the Vikings bonus it is too minor though, so I understand the frustration.

OOOOPs. Then it’s maybe not as bad. But if you do have to wait for them then there is the problem that those free militia conflict with the m@a upgrade. Or the intent is to use them as meatshield in archer battles? Kinda feels weird and not very good. Could be dangerous to skirms ig.

They use those res to get m@a, which is better.

Portuguese have the gold discount, better quality ships and feitorias, so they don’t need shipwright. Also diplomacy water map sounds like THE situation where Portuguese win.

necessary balance. Also not as bad as it sounds, after all the two other civs with a unique ships lack a ship line entirely each.

Ok I’m wondering why you absolutely want Portuguese to have a sword bonus. That’s like the third buff for them that you suggested. I know they are the Goth’s descendants but still that’s not a reason 11

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those swords bonuses came up natrually as it fits them hisorically. non of my suggestion were just out of arbitrary game balance.

having to wait for free millitia would help keep the whole thing balanced.

Probably because the portuguese were famous for their black swords, which were not only strikingly iconic, but also cause fear in the supersticious.
Black Montantes were known as Devil-swords, in certain regions of Africa, and they thought the users (Admiral’s bodyguard, as the Montante was a bodyguard weapon) were soulless or where capable of sending people straight to Hell, with no judgement, with their blades.

Fun fact: in portuguese, they are known as “colhonas” ou “colhoneiras”, which mean “testicled” meaning that the swords were definitely male!
It was due to the shape on the guard, that gave the whole thing a phallic silhouette.


Nah, italians still held the edge, but now civs like portos or koreans have completely respectable fighting chance.

For Italians vs portos, italians can still “out-tech” portos, and have better fire ships, but if portos are able to stall them until late imp, their tankier galleons and feitoria will bring them to victory, which is how it’s historically supposed to be.

The italian maritime republics dominate the seas until later on the portos founded the route around Africa, then the italian power start declining and the portos power start rising.

Most pros disagree with this…

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only sounds like it before u lose to italians ( they dont benefit as much from ship discount as they normally would)

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Well, there have been a bunch of posts complaining feitorias are OP in FFA/diplo. Add to that the ressource restriction of islands and I can’t imagine how Ports are beatable late-game in these settings. Unless you only ever build caravels and the Italian only ever build fast fires?

on the topic of feitoria and late game problems in ffa/diplo

buffing portuguese millitiray stats could make this matter even worse.

adding squirres would really matter in these cases as halbs are trash and champs are good against trash and now they are also FU and feitroias keep going.

on the other hand that limited free millitia bonus would harldy change anything here and purely affect early game. So there is no danger for worseing on this mater.

I don’t think the Portuguese need any buff or nerf, they are more than fine at the moment, and their 20% gold discount is one of the best eco/military bonus in the game.