if portuguese are more than fine (on land) then every civ in the game is, as there is no worse one besides burgundians.
burgundians really bad winrate is liekly explained by flemish revolution fails in my opinion.
portuguese low winrate is likely affetced by missuse (or should i say useage) of feitorias.
i call these kind of things noobtraps. they appear like a bonus but actually the civ would be better without them as more often than not players use them wrong and hurting themself in doing so.
makes statistics a bit skewed. in a perfect word having acces to feitorias is better than not, but players arent perfect. even pros build feitroias instead of just more wood cutters in cases that are questionable.
Yeah currently all civs are fine in general, if we need changes, we just need to talk about some useless UTs and useless team bonuses or buffing/nerfing the UUs. The only civs that need help are the new civs (Burgundians and Sicilians and maybe Koreans need to restore their old identity with their +1 free range for their mangonels and give them back their 50% build faster fortifications which includes (towers, castles and walls).
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99% agree, only that i see portuguese in as much need of change as koreans
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Portuguese are really strong and not bad at all, i mean have a cheap xbows, knights, monks and siege is really tough and not bad at all; their bonus is much better than Koreans.
Maybe because stats arenāt a direct representation of the balance of a civ? Because there are other factors that influence stats that people ignore, like trends launched by pros, personal bias, what is the meta nowadays, how much strategies are discovered and affirmed for that civ, how easy or difficult is to use that civ, and so onā¦
But noooo, letās look at the win rates (always ignoring the pick ratesā¦) as a direct measure of the balance, like there is some kind of cause and effect link between themā¦
portuguese have the lowest pickrate of all civs. as if people knew they suck and stayed away from it. they are also boring to play without a signle unique strategy. i am trying to change this with my suggetions.
thats also the reason these threads are so hard to keep moving.
ports sucks ā nobody plays ports ā nobody cares for ports ā ports stay bad as nobody complaints ā lets buff italians againā¦
trends and meta effentually become statistics too once these new strategies get more well known. Statistics are always momentary, balance is also always moving and hpefully abalcne patches never stop.
ports arent easy or hard to use, they suck for everyone equally.
statistics are the best unbised tool to measure and quantify civ balance we got at hand.
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Or maybe people simply stubbornly always pick franks, because they are strong, easy to use, and God forbid they could die if their rank dimishesā¦
Player in game always try to find the easiest and strongest way to win, it happens in all games. On age, itās picking the āstrongestā, better known and popular civs, on and FPS itās always picking the strongest and most broken weapon that just spray a hell of bullets without any recoil, and so onā¦
The problem isnāt always the game, most of the times the player are a problem as much as the gameā¦
Stats may be unbiased, but the people who read them apparently arenātā¦
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not sure what yo uare trying to tell me with your last post. I should stop playing ports and embrance franks only? If you cant beat them join them?
People say they FEEL like ports are fine, I feel liek they are notā¦ who is right? i will trust my numbers to decide. feel free to FEEL differently.
I dont want ports to become top tier on arabia, but franks winning 7/10 games against ports is broken. I will be happy with game balance when the wost civ on any map against the best civ on that same map will still have a 6/10 chance (examples: bulgarians vs ports on water, ports against franks on land)
i got a masters degree in stochastics, it doesnt matter on this forum, but i persoanlly just cant think or reason any other way.
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According to stats Chinese are a Middle of thd road civilization. But are one of the best in the hands of pros.
This is why stats arenāt the end all be all.
Portuguese are a civ about using small bonuses to your advantage. Unfortunately most arenāt able to take advantage of those small bonuses.
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Sounds good to me. Ports need nothing.
They are middle-of-the.road on Land, and excellent on Water.
No matter what you do to Ports, unless you just make them bonker OP, they will never be the Franks or the Mayans. Ports are good enough as they are.
No, it makes sense. Franks are a Knight civ, the most Meta of the Meta units, and they are only good at one thing.
Meanwhile, Ports have decent Siege, amazing Archers, and serviceable Halbs. Franks have good Knights and Infantry, and that is it.
Civs like Franks are purely specialized, all their strength is concentrated in one build. Ports have options.
It just turns out that ultra-specialization achieves better results, more often, which is why animals specialize throughout evolution, and the principle applies in the game aswell.
This does not mean Ports are bad, it means they are not Meta like Franks are, because their specialization is for Water maps, not Arabia.
Ports are the Franks (quite literally, including the extra HP bonus) of Water maps.
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yeah we talked about this yesterday. our understanding and definition of what is good balacned is fundamentally different. we wont convice each other any way for the other standpoint as yours maeks little sense to me and just creates frsutrating games and mine apparently vioaltes yours.
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i dont want to play franks, the meta civ on arabia, i want to paly ports and dont get stomped. as this is not supported by devs and community. i guess i will play something else for now. wow tbc classic is coming out soon. maybe in another 10 years in age of empires definitively definite 2 ports get a bufff and i can a fair game wit hthe civ i want to paly on a non water map.
/thread
if anybody know how to lock/close a tread, please tell me
IDK if this is a bit off topic, but I have to disagree with you here a bit. Franks can do a lot more than ājust cavā. They have bonuses for every age that help them with basically everything you need for open maps.
- Eco bonuses: faster food from berries, saving res for bloodlines, saving res for easy map control castles, saving res for farm upgrades so you have WAY better wood economy.
- Military bonuses: again the cheaper castles work pretty well for map control in late castle, more HP scouts are really strong because they can tank more damage early without the need to invest in techs.
That is basically all you need isnāt it? Their units in Castle Age are more or less generic, itās the 4 eco bonuses that make them powerful. Also easy spam with easy access UT.
They are not really amazing, the bonus helps them to shift one or two vills here or there but the units are really just generic.
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They are discounted on Gold, which matters a lot in the Imperial Age.
I agree, it is very good bonus in late Imp when gold runs out. However this doesnāt matter if you lose the game long before that. I suppose OP was about changing that, so they can compete a bit better (he mentioned the 42% ā 47% winrate) in midgame. Their bonuses are quite good, donāt get me wrong, but they suffer from the same generic feeling Italians have.
My point is: they are a bit boring on land as everything they can do, another civ can do better as they are specialised. I guess a small buff wouldnāt hurt them eh? Maybe something for the organ gun to emphazise on their civ identity? 
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has you guys tried the imrpvoed organ guns after the buff?
the only time i could imagine it could actually do a noticable imrpvement is organ guns against massed and stacked archer/skirms.
Do you guys still feel like portugese dont need a water nerfs, considering they are part of the water triforce now (italian, vikings, ports) which are the only viable pure water civs?
How would you guys feel about removish the carracks UT +1 armor to nerf their uber tankiness in post imp. They still would have cheaper gold (but no drydocks) and more hp ships. Also carravel, feitroais and arquebus cannon galleons. Isnt that enough bonuses? They would still be among the best water civs but we would gradully allow more second grade water civs to join the trifecta.
Sarracean would have better post imp galleons with drydock cheaper wood and faster attackspeed after removing carracks.
Instead give ports carrack black sword as castle age UT that increase swordsmen atk and armor by +1/+1/+1.
Ports dont get squirres, but got cheaper gold. This would make them a semi viable infatry civ on land maybe.
Can we go from units -20% gold to all technologies -20% gold?
This also brings loom down to 40 gold and also seem much more flexible.
Would mostly buff them in early imperial age thought were techs cost lots of gold.
Expcect for loom and bloodlines, Fletching, there arenāt any gold costing tevhs one normally gets before castle.
Helps somewhat with castle age blacksmith upgrades and getting crossbow tech and ballistic.
But the bonus would be broken in my opinion with their already cheaper monks. Now you can also get cheaper monk techs. Ports woukd have to loose redemption. Not nice.
Rest of bonus is more or less in imp
Portuguese is one of the main civs for water, but they are still behind Vikings and Italians. So nerfing their water power can make them Koreans-like level. Thus we wouldnāt see as much Portuguese on waters and water maps would become a Viking-Italian fest again,
Also, notice that even if they have received a water buff (cannon galleon not requiring chemistry) that comboes with arquebus, cannon galleon projectiles are so slow that the effect is smaller than expected.
Said that they needed a land buff and already received one in organ guns. If this is not enough, I will buff their researching speed bonus, which would buff them in water and land. Maybe I would buff that bonus in further ages, like 30% in feudal, 40% in castle and 50% in imperial. If this makes them too powerful in water (because reasons), then we can nerf carracks cost/researching speed.
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