With Supplies tech Swordsman are quite easy to afford now. Still not so useful. At best Meso civs Eagles are fairly easy to deal with. But we still don’t find their much use other than Man At Arms opening. How you think this can be more viable being truthful to metas?
Long Swordsman upgrade getting cheaper. (Costing less food to upgrade. Becoming nearly as cheap as Crossbowman upgrade.)
Long Swordsman onwards having +1 melee armor.
Long Swordsman being as fast as Castle Age Crossbowman.
You’ve already mentioned how their becoming cheaper didn’t necessarily make them useful, so I don’t know that making the upgrade cheaper is what they need.
I never liked the Supplies tech, and in an original thread a long time ago I suggested that in lieu of that, Longswords should get +1 pierce armor and a small speed boost (5-10%). I don’t think they need more melee armor, because they’re decent when they can get an engagement. Obviously they don’t counter knights, but they’re not meant to. But since the devs have doubled down on supplies, I don’t think we’re going to see another buff on the infantry line.
I think long sword man arw not used due to the speed. Nevertheless, I find them useful, and even have seen some pro games where they were use. All in all, I think right now they usable, yet not the meta. But it’s okay, I like it that way. Plus, They’re the best counter to the combo of pikes + onager
I mean, first of all, people don’t spect the long swords. And second, if your opponent is playing knights, and you mix some pikes, well… You just won. You force him to go for scorpions. On the otherhand, if he’s playing archers, you can alwaysmix with skirmishers or some siege. I don’t think they’re uselessat all.
+1 pierce can be bit too strong. Especially Champions on late game. That’s the point M@A-line really shine. Otherwise you won’t really bother to make them. Two Handed Swordsman HP is still very low.
Upgrades are really bothersome to M@A-line tbh. You need to upgrade them to Man At Arms, Long Swords, Two Handed, Supplies, Squires, Infantry and Armor upgrades. Really bothersome.
Maybe. Still, it’s a big inhibition to using them if you’re still at militia in the imperial age, but of course you’re not gonna research them just in case.
No, that combo I said works for anyciv that have FU longswords (pretty much a lot of civs) of course it work better with infantry civs, but other civs still do the trick
“best” counter to pikes + onager could also be monks or BBC + archers/CA, its very subjective either way…
either way, until pathfinding gets fixed, imho militia line really needs a buff from castle age onwards
atm, regardless of your civ bonuses : knights are viable, xbows are viable, onagers are viable, pikes/skirms always do their job (as hard counters)
while militia line(which costs gold and should therefore reflect that cost in strength) besides rushing and countering very specific targets like eagles, huskarls(sometimes), still costs a lot of gold and has no where near the flexiblie viabitliy as the knights, xbows, and onagers…
“A lot” of gold is certainly not 20 g per unit. And 45 f is neither expensive. Yeah, they’re not knights, but again, they’re cheaper. And mixed with other unit can be real useful.
I’m not saying it’s the meta. I’m just saying it’s a possible to use them
Yes, it’s mainly to counter gunpowder, but the fact it allows you to train Infantry in Imp without having to buy all the upgrades gives it some more use. Also, its anti-gunpowder niche is eaten by skirms and cav…
You’d still be saving the 2HS and Champ upgrades. The main savings would be in time not having to be spent researching early cheap techs like MAA and LS.
I agree with others. their single biggest issue is their speed. they get out microed by just about anything else and with the current pathing its too easy to swing in, do damage and run away to pick off one or two units.