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Change the Title please.
We have enough Clickbait on youtube, we don’t need it in the forum.
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Give some idia to me
potential ideas to improve gameplay on water
would that be good?
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Whilst I like the Diversity of the water units there, I think this alone isn’t enough.
As I asid in another thread, theere need also a purpose for fighting on Water. Currently we have almost only food eco on water as purpose to make military on it
If we don’t get more reason to fight about water control - and complex machanics that eg allow for a comeback (water in it’s current state is extremely snowbally) I don’t see a military overhaul achieving a lot.
Imo first there needs to be a water concept that makes it interesting to play on water, then the military can be diversified. If we first diversify the military without that concept we will create a big disappointment for many players.Cause there would be interesting units to #### ##### ### almost no revard for it.
Maybe I could try to design a concept to make water more appealing and that adds mechanic with strategical complexity like on Land. But this will cost a lot of time, cause the mechanics of that will require being simple for understanding but abstract and volatile for the execution. Meaning, that it would always give several pure strats to be potentially even mixed to react to common situations.
I also think that with the current design of RaW there will be figured out one “optimal” fleet design which will then just be meta. What thrives the land diversity of the main power unit lines and the according unit comps is their different res requirements, their different utility and tech tree missings of the civs. And I don’t see this so far for that RaW water concept. Whilst they might counter each other, they need some more differentiation of how they interact with the other things in the game aswell. Like the galley lines could be specialised ## ######### land economy and the fire lines more specialised in killing fish economy. Some ships could be made substenitally faster and others slower, depending on their detined utility…
The complexity emerges from the fact that we also don’'t have a orientation for that kind of design like we have for land combat. There it’s kinda easy to deviate from historical sources how units interacted. Water Battles often were just decided by overwhealming power, technological advantages or the weather and rarely because of strategical outplays.
I think one of the key aspects of a overhauled Water design needs to be saturation. Meaning there need to be logical limits of how much eco/benefit you can take out of water. Which in return also limits your military investment to protect this benefit which in return then allows the opponent some comeback potential.
As I sasid, it’s very complicated to design this kind of things so there can evovle an interesting Gameplay out of it. And despite I am interested in this, I currently don’t see me putting that amount of work into it, especially if I don’t know if there is actually interest in this.
I find it really cool that the guys from RaW made the new units which are cool. But unfortunately this can’t solve the current issue that water atm is just totally boring in respect of strategical gameplay.
And if we don’t fix this FIRST, the approach will unfortunately end in a big dissapointment.
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there is a solution, already exists in aoe3, don’t make water food only
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Yeah, it’s part of a solution clearly. I think especially Gold would be nice to have from water too.
But there are a lot of other aspects. I don’t want to dive too deep inside these things here cause I think not everybody is happier with “knowing” things. But yeah, Having other ressources than food and potentially even reducing the impact of early fishing economy would certainly part of my approach if I would do it.
I think warships should cost two pop space. Less ships would make the battles more micro heavy and Galeon snowball would be limited.
Also winds and currents would be awesome and maybe even deep water passable only after certain research (keel) to delay aggression on some maps.
Damaged ships could move slower.
This is just part of the changes we’d like to implement. Ideally, we would also love to put gold, and likely wood, onto water. The reason we haven’t is mostly linked to the fact that we lack a skilled map scripter, so we can’t actually make these resources appear on the map.
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Allow ranged units to fire from transport ships
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Hmm. Not a bad idea actually, we could possibly look into it.
you can simply make a feitoria type building that can be build on water terrain which trickles wood slowly. or simply gather wood from corpse of dead ship, just need a few change up and it can be done.
No, I want things like oysters/sponges, that fishing ships can gather for gold. The wood from ships thing could be an option maybe.
maybe add another resources like PCM did, but for water only. not sure if anyone has tried exploring that option in DE so unsure if it can be done. I want a map where its just water only and can self sustain, it’ll be fun to play. reminds me of total annihilation which is pretty awesome.
PCM?
20 characters 20 characters.
PCM = portuguese civ mod, its from AOC i think and its one of the first massive mod that adds multiple civs to AOC (portuguese being one of them). it also had water buildings etc, basically all came from it originally.
they went as far as editing the .exe files to add 5th age and techtree integrated into game, and also the 5th type of resources they call it exp in that mod.
the 5th resource type technically could be done, what im unsure about is to have it shown in the UI. maybe someone whos good with UI would know this.
Sounds like they added a lot from AoE III, exp and fifth age.
What about adding the Pirate Ships???
They can be part of some Civilisations (Vikings and Chinese among others) or for new Capaings as a “Bought” Allied or Merchant acquisition.
(Pirate ships appeared in costume scenarios, they “Board” (Convert) other ships just like monks converting siege units by getting close to them)
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I always wanted to divide Gillnets into 2. 15% faster collection in Feudal Age and 10% in Castle Age. Collection rate multiplier for deep fish should be reduced 1.75 → 1.6
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I think ships in all stragegy games need a complete re-think to make them feel less bland. Rise and Fall did this a bit:
-use as floating platforms to put troops on - it’s up to you whether you fill it with ranged units or infantry or both
-have boarding rather than ship destruction take over as the main form of naval warfare. As you need to put your own troops in the ships, the player won’t be able to capture and use ships constantly without devoting a lot of pop limit to manning them effectively
-allow the player to move troops while on the ship (not simple garrison ability)
This would stop naval battles being a shoot-out on water and turn them into what they really were pre-1500: a way of turning the sea into a land battle
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