I have a confession to make
I have done the lame incan spearman build just spaming them into the opponent’s base, completely ignoring fights and just take down their eco and trade as much as possible…and it works
but in doing this i also came to a thought, technically dutch halbs can do the exact same thing with military reforms (they are speedy, have massive health, incredible siege and very high damage - even with the negative multi they still do more damage to infantry then the plummed spearman) they even cost about the same now
even their eco can sorta pull of the same thing, incredibility efficient ecos with buildings that generate one res and you can just focus your vils on the less efficient res
But actually trying this out its not as strong as compared to what inca can pull off
and I think it comes down to the fact that the cost structure of the halb is incredibly ineffecient, even with banks supporting your gold eco, you cannot spam as much as you want to keep the pressure as inca can
And this is where I you can tame the plummed spearman a bit since currently their cost are very light on wood (the inefficient resource) so you can have a very efficient eco with most of your vils on food and just pump them non stop into the opponent’s base
the cost of the halb (50f 70c) is probably too coin heavy such that even the dutch eco cannot support their constant production
I think plummed spearman cost could be brought down to a 120 total but its cost could be say 60f 60w or 55f 65w which will make them so much more inefficient to spam
this might be applicable to other units (heavy infantry that is fast enough to snare in melee but also have enough siege to clear buildings) like rajputs, JPK etc, their total cost arguably might not need to change but it needs to be inefficient. Samurai are another example (even before the mortar thing) they are good units but their cost makes them ineffecient to just spam into the opponent’s base
Since recent cost increase plumed spearman cost more than a janissary, they don’t need any further nerfing.
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Turning them into 50+ wood cost is a very big nerf for them, potentially making them unusable in late game scenario much like hauds Kanya Horseman, even for Kanya after they got the 400% tree yield card, I still need to put 20-30 villager into wood to maintain production, even Musket Rider become unusable with that card as they now need 100 wood each.
Here I was thinking that they need buff that chaning them from being a spearman into a javeliner(musketeer equivalent) much like the native Mayans change several patch ago. Give them an Age4 card “Estólica”, Retrain out Plummed Spearman in the art of spear throwing, Plummed Spearman receive 10 ranged damage with 1.5 ROF in 12 range.
to be fair to inca, the spear is needed for them since they have no musk and their bolas is bol(a$$) and the spear now is probably fair costed but inca’s ability tp spam kancha means they are both overpriced and then spammable as hell. I dont know where to go from there since their jungles got nerfed they actually dont do as well vs musk huss in 2 like they did before and their chimu pike is still annoying as heck but its not super op
If at all, a small increase like 30w and 70f or 35w would probably suffice. since Jungles do piss all to cav now and chimu are no longer gods they need something. maybe in future if bolcraps are not so bad again (note they arent bad in team games but for 1v1 they are niche and not viable mass anti cav imho) we can tweak further but as is this just ensures otto rolls inca even harder. so unscrew inca jungles poison and maybe buff bolas, then nerf spears a bit would be my direction. give and take.
imho contrain opinion. fwiw i do generaly think what you stated is true its just the design of this civ i dunno if you can fix it without making it bad atm
Bolas need 1 more range in age 3 so they can deal with cav a bit better and I’d give them 0.5 more speed, 4 speed is far too slow they never catch anything especially with 13 range in age 3. They already have 0.5x vs infantry we just need them to actually do their job better vs cav as intended. If they buffed them they could leave the bowmens poison damage doing less vs cav and you’d be less dependent on spears for the whole game.
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Do they need to catch anything though? no one is using muskets to catch stuff they already have range resist and more range then regular muskets. They also snare from range so speed isnt what you need for them to catch anything
compare them to the closest splash musket (the Akan musket) their only real disadvantage is the negative multiplier against infantry they have more range , higher damage against all the cav and even more splash area
the only thing they “need” is maybe the infantry multiplier to like 0.8 instead of the 0.5 (it was 0.5 to basically negate the splash damage cap) and maybe more controversially, the kallanka should be unlocked in age 2 with only the bolas available. The age 2 card that unlocks them can be combined with advanced kallanka and unlock the other 2 units.
This way inca have an age 2 musk and heavier gold play, its also essentially a house as well so having the as an option besides the kancha is an area for them
I don’t really consider it to be a musk as it is supposed to be your dragoon equivalent, I want it to snare hand cavalry and kill them effectively as otherwise you end up just chasing them around with spears. If they want they can just make it like a musk and remove the splash damage and lower the cost, might be better.
They need more speed to actually get a shot off at cavalry, more range would help as well.
Interesting idea to make them do more damage vs infantry and available in age 2.
Tbh I’d rather they just did their intended job and beat cavalry, give them a 0.1x vs infantry if necessary but buff them to deal with cavalry. It’s really annoying when you’re getting raided all over and just moving spears about endlessly.
They fall under similar design as carolean and fusileer and they are tagged as musket infantry and heavy infantry as well so I think trying to make it become your dragoon is just setting it up for failure.
It is annoying but tbh its not something that inca cares about that much considering their counter raid ability and all of their defensive buildings
edit: maybe im too used to using asian civs, but if you are being raided, light cav are almost never the thing you make to chase them off.
Now imagine if Changdao swordsman can be made alone.
An even split of resources seems too harsh to me. But being almost entirely food is a steal of a deal with Kanchas so altering it to be a little less favourable would be good. Shifting it from 100f/25w to 85f/40w would probably be a good balance. They could also have their siege damage toned down a little bit. Macemen are supposed to be Inca’s siege unit, but Plumed Spearman really steal their thunder with better mobility and range so they’re much better in practice.
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