Predictions on the November balance changes

Hi everyone, it’s been a long time since I was able to post here.

Since I want to catch up a bit with you, I’m proposing this discussion, I’m also curious of what do you expect from the next patch in terms of balance changes.

To be clear, I don’t want to discuss potential changes, or what someone would like to see, instead I want to hear what based on you perception, may be an accurate (as much as everyone can…) estimate of what do you expect to see.

That means that if you would like to see a certain change, or even think that it’s necessary, but at the same time you think that it will be pretty rare that it will happen, you won’t list it, instead you will list what you think it will be implemented, even if you don’t agree with it. You can base your opinions on the past discussion on the forum, or on the recent release video, on the past patches, and so on…

I’m doing this not only to catch up a bit the lost discussions of the past month, but also because I’m interested in seeing how the player base perceive the game, and how well they can anticipate the changes.


I’ll go off first, here is what I expect in summary:

  • CA frame delay reduced by a bit.
  • HC tweaked, either by it cost or by it bonuses


Some small buff and tweaks, but nothing really new, like:

  • small buff on their blacksmith bonus
  • allow the krepost to research some technologies (but never trebs)


Small tweak to their drush, either:

  • decreasing the infantry discount (10/15% from 20%)
  • making them start with less gold


Nerf to their BE/cavalry, either:

  • decrease of their speed bonus to 5/10%
  • or removing husbandry


  • Part of their wood discount applied to siege


Small land balance, either:

  • a new bonus for land (unlikely)
  • re-balance of cheap age/dock bonus
  • lowered the TT and elite cost of the GC


  • 10/15 gold increase on the letis cost


  • knight-line back to only +1MA


  • more accuracy on janissarys (maybe even sacrificing some attack)
  • buff to their gold gathering bonus
  • recucing the cost of the imp UT


  • Some small tweaks to the tech tree, like getting upgrades such as squires, or hussars


  • I don’t know why, but my gut tells me that this may be the time that finally they get a useful imperial UT, but I may be wrong…


  • team bonus doubled (I know that this indiscretion may be wrong, but still it’s solid bet…)

Why would devs nerf bad civs?


why would they nerf Teutons?

fixed that for you


Because I often heard people (some pros too) saying that despite those not being good civs, some small aspects of them were too powerful, and sometimes would cause some cancerous game stiles.

Again, it’s not my opinion, just what I feel might happened


When did you hear pros saying that?

If I could choose, I would trade teuton +2 melee armor on knight line for husbandry any time. Teutons are fine now imo.

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Uff I did not remember, for teutons I seem to recall that viper stated it after a team games, but I don’t remember everything…

Those are just opinions, or bets, don’t take them as actually sources or confirmed info.

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Bulgarians will get the strongest buff because for many player they suppose to be the weakest civ.

Either food discount for economy upgrades, blacksmith discount or discount for several tech like Bloodlines or supply.

Economy upgrade for Tatars

Koreans wood discount for siege

Italians receive some military discount

Slight buff for portuguese

Slights early economy buff for Magyars

Reduce cost or/and research time for wheel barrow and hand cart

Attack delay reduction for CA

Cost reduction for steppe Lancer

Cost reduction for hand canoneer

Cost reduction for supply

Several UU buff

Several useless UT change/buff

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I don’t know what they’ll exactly do but if I had to guess:

  • Cav Archer buff
  • Nerf to Khmer, but nothing excessive. Unlikely to happen but a Franks nerf might also be considered.
  • Buff to Bulgarians, Portuguese and Turks. Maybe something also for Tatars, though the Cav archer might already cover them on that regard.
  • Buff to Italians on Land.
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I think this sums it up

And MAYBE the logical buff to LS tech… But at this rate who knows…

We might be expecting too much from em…

Edit : i really don’t think that inca or hun are happening though. I think the vid already confirmed inca isn’t. It’s just rewording afaik

Remember this buffs all the actual gunpowder civs(which are mentioned lower down, equalling compounded buffs) , as well as weirdly goths.

As it gives goths a potential counter to civs that hard counter their flood with their own champ and equivalents (vikings, Burmese etc)

My thoughts,

  • General : CA Frame delay (10 to 8,5) / Hand Cannoneer accuracy (65% to 80%) / LS upgrade : increased research speed and reduce tech cost / 50% more wolves on the map

  • Burmeses : Manipur Cavalry doesn’t affect Arambais anymore

  • Bulgarians : Maybe Blacksmith cost reduction (150 wood to 75 wood), some small eco bonus, Bagain price

  • Koreans : Wood discount apply to siege units, reduced to 15% overall

  • Celts : Siege firing rate reduced a little

  • Francs : Foragers bonus reduced to 15%

  • Goths : Remove free loom (compensate with better LS, and enhance pathing in best case scenario)

  • Khmer : Reduce farmers gathering rate by 4-5%
    Elephants move 10% faster in Castle Age, 15% in Imperial age (instead of 15% all the time)

  • Portuguese : More viable feitoria (20 pop space to 15), and a small bonus for land maps in early game. Little nerf for navy (10% HP bonus including in the UT instead, cost increase).

  • Turcs : Onager tech available

In addition, might be some unique units adjustments (Geneose Xbows, Keshiks, Jannies, Leitis, Mameluks, Samouraïs, War elephants) and unique techs (Nomad, Atheism, with a nerf to Huns if needed).

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Instead devs should reduce wolves on the map.

Some pros and commentators complained about the goth free loom because it turned them into a laming civ

TBH I would remove the extra carry cap of Goth Hunters if a nerf is needed, having extra attack vs Boars is already a strong early bonus

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It’s useless, but annoying. I’d be glad if devs removed it.

7, I don’t mind laming, anyways it’s the only thing that Goths can do with a drush m@a follow-up. You can do it without lame, but it’s very easy to wall in berries and kill the enemy boar.

It existed since 1999

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Both civs are definitely not “bad” civ (Just not top-tier in tournament). Teutons are the best civ in Arena and have more than 50% winrate in Arabia in 1650+ ELO.
Goths are not top-tier in tournament but fairly well picked/banned by many players in last KOTD3 tournament and 2nd highest winrate at 1650+ Elo in Arabia. No civ have that kind of strong dark age bonus of Free loom + militia discount.

Other civs also cannot do anything except Scout or drush-MAA until Early Feudal and I think Goths is strongest (At least one of the strongest) in that early stage of game . I personally think Goths should be nerf but never mind not change it. Just not agree with goths are “bad” civ.

Why everyone says cav archers need a frame delay buff?

On the contrary those foot archers that load and fire arrows in nanoseconds should get a higher frame delay…

Moving-stopping like an automaton is really “strange” both in looks and function.

Fix this and LS (that everybody also wants buffed) are perfect.

you think knights would be over-powered then? reduce hp by 5 or 10…

But anyways the counter to knights should not be “Make MOAR archers”

Actually i am making a topic regarding that.