Proliferation of Civs with too many bonuses

[WrierRook8415]

More the bonuses, better it is. Bring them more.

[JasuniSmith]

@benithisrael

Without Siege enginners, they struggle late game. A 25% discount gives them more staying power. I had to come up with a number than bridges trade cart discout with gunpowder. 25% seemed optimal.

hussar + genBow/Arbs/hand cannons + BBC: a well-balanced comp that is very strong late-game (with ranged unit choice being flexible). They can use their BBCs against enemy siege units (enemy BBC with siege engineers or artillery can cause problems, but not that big of an issue in my experience - they can be sniped by hussars/condos). Italians are one of my main civs, and I like to play them as a late-game civ. Frankly, being one of the few civs with FU hussars and Arbs is enough to make them a strong late-game civ, and discount BBCs rounds out the comp by warding off onagers.

Italians also have one of the broadest tech trees in the game. They play well as a timing-oriented civ, but can also play well as a defensive/late-game civ. Their siege might not be great, but they don’t need more than trebs and discount BBCs (and the occasional onager cut). As it is, I think Italians are a top-tier late-game civ (at least in 1v1 - in team games they benefit from their flexibility and the trade discount, but lack the raw power that units with bonuses can provide).

[benithisrael]

@JoJo9942

False equivalence, a TC is a central economic building. And without mining stone, you can’t place two TCs after castle age if a monastery cost stone. Spamming Church is only rewarding for Georgians, Armenians only get a glorified monastery

Do you know even garrisoned Relics fire arrows which i stupid? If you wish to add another defensice building which is spamable, then there should be an upgrade cost involved. Maybe 100 wood and 100 stone to enable all the benefits of fortified church for both civs. However given the fact that the civs are still now and are not completely dominating the ladder these changes may not come.

@JoJo9942

It kinda does, most balance changes are centred around high elo, not noob strats

Are noobs paying any less?

@Harooooo1

Resources are Resources

No, collection rate and availanility dictate resource value

@WrierRook8415

More the bonuses, better it is. Bring them more.

Take a look at civs with just 3 main bonuses and a team bonus then tell me how elegant civs with strap-on bonuses look

@JasuniSmith

Italians also have one of the broadest tech trees in the game. They play well as a timing-oriented civ, but can also play well as a defensive/late-game civ. Their siege might not be great, but they don’t need more than trebs and discount BBCs (and the occasional onager cut). As it is, I think Italians are a top-tier late-game civ (at least in 1v1 - in team games they benefit from their flexibility and the trade discount, but lack the raw power that units with bonuses can provide).

They probably are amazing late game. Maybe gunpowder discount can stay at 20%. But the civ design is overloaded with so many options. Its feels like a cluster ****

[II.Selim]

Civs aren’t meant to be balanced by having the same amount of bonuses. They don’t have the same amount of technologies or unique units either.

They are asymmetric, and that’s part of the fun.