Proposals for future Balance Changes [2025 May]

[KHANATTILA]

@TrustfulMango90

To the topic: I get why Armenians would be changed by the way OP suggests - it’s because their cavalry was formidable, but then Armenians would need to be changed thoroughly, including their spear-line early upgrade bonus.

Currently for their ranged options, I’m leaning towards simply adding Heavy CA + PT without removing Arbalest. In the end, we have several civilisations that are in the same situation. The important thing is not to give them Thumb Ring.

As for the rest… Armenians are very one-dimensional. Yesterday it was a problem and people filled threads about it. Today they are suddenly fine. Although in some situations they still have 0 chance.

[Pulikesi25]

@KHANATTILA

Armenians

• New units
  • Gain access to Heavy Cav Archer.
  • Gain access to Paladin.
• New technologies
  • Gain access to Parthian Tactics.
  • Gain access to Shipwright.
  • Gain access to Plate Barding Armour.
  • Gain access to Siege Engineers.
• Mule Cart
  • Lose access to Mule Cart.
  • Gain access to Mining Camp and Lumber Camp.
  • Mule Carts cost -25% removed.
  • Change from Mule Cart technologies are 40% more effective → Mining Camp and Lumber Camp technologies are 40% more effective.
• Civilization bonuses
  • New civilization bonus: Warrior Priests +100% heal speed.
  • Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile removed.
• Cilician Fleet
  • Demolition Ships +20% blast radius; Galley-line and Dromons +1 range adjusted → Demolition Ships +20% blast radius; Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile.
• Fereters removed.
• New unique tech: Master carpenters
  • Available in Imperial Age for 800 wood 800 gold.
  • Allows the creation of Trebuchet at the Siege Workshop.
• (Elite) Composite Bowman
  • Training time increased from 12 → 15, Elite 10 → 13.
  • Elite Composite Bowman reload time reduced from 2 → 1.8.
• Lose access to Champion.
• Lose access to Arbalester.
• Lose access to Herbal Medicine.
• Lose access to Plate Mail Armor.

This is not a balance change, its a complete redesign of the civ into “Cavalry and Naval civilization”. Not that I dislike it but its like almost creating an entirely new civ.

@KHANATTILA

Aztecs

• (Elite) Jaguar Warrior
  • Pierce armour reduced from 2 → 1, Elite 2 → 1.

Note: I honestly think this is an oversight. All units of this type (e.g. Berserk, Samurai, Letis and Cataphract) have 1 pierce armour.

Absolutely terrible change. Samurai now move much faster and cost lower and yet they’re a mediocre unit. Leitis and Cataphracts have mobility, their civs have gunpowder and nearly a full tech tree.

@KHANATTILA

Bohemians

• New technologies
  • Gain access to Hoardings.
• Civilization bonuses
  • New civilization bonus: Hoardings is free.
  • Mining Camp technologies are free adjusted → Gold Mining and Gold Shift Mining are free.

Note: It would also separate them a bit from the Koreans (stone collection bonus & no Hoardings). I do not know if Hoardings free is too strong.

Good change I like it.

@KHANATTILA

• Civilization bonuses
• New civilization bonus: Archery Ranges work +20% faster.
• Team bonus
• New team bonus: Watch Tower-line +1 attack.
• Archery Ranges work +10% faster removed.

These changes are good.

@KHANATTILA

• Elite Longbowman
• Range increased from 8 → 9.
• Upgrade cost increased from 850 food 850 gold → 950 food 950 gold.
• Yeomen
• Cost changed from 750 wood 450 gold → 350 food 350 gold.
• Effect changed from Foot Archers and Skirmisher-line +1 range; Watch Tower-line +2 attack → Spearman-line and Skirmishers +1 attack.

These are not. Its better to remove the +1 range in imperial age, give elite longbows 7 base range and +2 from Yeomen just to Longbows for the price you’ve mentioned or maybe even cheaper.

@KHANATTILA

• Howdah removed.
• Civilization bonuses
  • Battle Elephants +1 melee/+1 pierce armor adjusted → Battle Elephants +1 melee/+1 pierce armor in Castle Age, +2 melee/+2 pierce armor in Imperial Age.
  • New civilization bonus: Relics visible on the map at the start of the game.
  • Infantry +1/+2/+3 attack in Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age removed.
• Team Bonus
  • Relics visible on the map at the start of the game replaced → Relics generate wood in addition to gold.
• (Elite) Arambai
  • Attack reduced from 12 → 11, Elite 14 → 13.
• New unique tech: Poison darts
  • Available in Castle Age for 400 wood 300 gold.
  • Mounted archers deal 3 extra poison damage to non-siege units over 10 seconds.

Note: the Burmese are described as an Monks & Elephants, so the infantry bonus was always misplaced. Moreover, this new Unique Tech would also give their Archery Range a purpose (the actual balance to be tested), obviously also applies to the Arambai.

Huge nerf to a civ which is already quite mediocre. There’s absolutely no necessity to nerf base dps of Arambais or Burmese infantry since their ranged units are extremely weak. Poison darts I believe is an exact duplicate of one of the upcoming civ bonuses. Civ needs some bonus on siege or bonus resistance from archers if you’re nerfing the military this way.

@KHANATTILA

Byzantines

• Logistica
  • Cataphracts deal trample damage, +6 attack vs. Infantry adjusted → Knight-line and Cataphracts deal trample damage, +6 attack vs. Infantry.
• Lose access to Paladin.

Niche but not a bad idea.

@KHANATTILA

Georgians

• Svan Towers reworked.
• Aznauri Cavalry removed.
• New units
  • Gain access to Arbalester.
  • Gain access to Warrior Priest.
• New unique buildings: Svan Tower
  • Same strength as Watch Tower-line, improvements in the university.
  • Same cost as a tower, but also provides +5 population space.
  • Unique look that already exists.
• Civilization bonuses
  • Changed from Mounted units regenerate 2/8/14 hit points per minute in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age → Mounted units regenerate 10/15 hit points per minute in the Castle/Imperial Age.
• Svan Towers renamed to Encastellation
  • Same effect.
• New unique tech: Tadzreuli Infantry
  • Available in Imperial Age for 500 food 350 gold.
  • Infantry units (except the Spearman line) +30 hit points.
• (Elite) Monaspa
  • Cost changed from 60 food 45 gold → 60 food 55 gold.
  • HP increased from 70 → 80, Elite 80 → 100.
  • Melee armor reduced from 3 → 2, Elite 5 → 4.
• Nearby unit requirement for additional attack reduced from 7 units → 6 units.
• Lose access to Heavy Cav Archer.
• Lose access to Parthian Tactics.

Note: the whole balancing of the Monaspa required some work, but it was necessary. Without the Aznauri Cavalry tech, the Imperial unit becomes less pop-efficient, so you need to increase the cost and stats. Also, with the presence of the 100 HP Champion, it makes sense that they are slightly more effective against ranged units and slightly less effective against melee units.

Again a massive rework of the entire civ. Ok to rebrand them into a cavalry and infantry civ but towers shouldn’t get pass through damage by default. If its just the same stats as a watch tower and just looks different that’s a cosmetic change, totally unnecessary and removal of the pass through ability on their towers is a huge nerf for late imp.

@KHANATTILA

Gurjaras

• Civilization bonuses
  • New civilization bonus: Mills, Lumber Camps and Mining Camps have double HP.

Somewhat ok but will still remain a very weak civ.

@KHANATTILA

• Civilization bonuses
• Foot Archers and Condottieri +1 melee/+1 pierce armor civilization bonus adjusted → Foot Archers +1 melee/+1 pierce armor.
• Gunpowder units are 20% cheaper civilization bonus adjusted → Gunpowder units and Condottieri are 20% cheaper.
• (Elite) Genoese Crossbowman
• New +2 bonus damage vs. Spearman.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman base attack increased from 6 → 7.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman bonus damage vs. Cavalry reduced from 7 → 5.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman bonus damage vs. War elephant reduced from 7 → 5.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman bonus damage vs. Camel reduced from 6 → 4.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman bonus damage vs. Ship reduced from 5 → 4.
• Elite Genoese Crossbowman bonus damage vs. Fishing Ship reduced from 5 → 4.

These are bad. Condottieri are somewhat relevant and need to have 5 p.armor so that they don’t die against skirms. Cheap military is great for castle age but they are an imperial age unit. As far as genoese, I’d prefer the opposite kind of changes: -1 base attack for non-elites and elites and +1 or even +2 vs cavalry.

@KHANATTILA

• Elite Mangudai
  • Bonus damage +1 against Sperman increased → +3 (thread).
• Civilization bonuses
  • New civilization bonus: Lost Houses do not decrease population space.
  • Scout Cavalry-line and Steppe Lancers +20/30% hit points in the Castle/Imperial Age removed.
• Nomads
  • Cost changed from 300 wood 150 gold → 250 Food 250 Gold.
  • Effect changed from Lost Houses do not decrease population space → Scout Cavalry-line and Steppe Lancers +25 HP.

Note: the final stats are almost identical. Some bonus could be added, I welcome suggestions.

I wouldn’t recommend the extra damage for Mangudai against spears but switching Nomad with their default civ bonus is fine. I wouldn’t give any extra hp on castle age lancers though, maybe since its very cheap it can be 25% extra hp.

@KHANATTILA

Sicilians

• New technologies
  • Gain access to Thumb Ring.
• Hauberk
  • Cost changed from 700 food 600 gold → 500 food 400 gold.
  • Effect changed from Knight-line +1 melee/+2 pierce armor → Barracks and Stable units receive +1 melee/+1 pierce armor.

Civ design is flawed with negligible eco benefits until 35-40 mins nor a very strong generic military bonus anymore. While this change is fine after fixing the eco-military imbalance, not a great change atm.

@KHANATTILA

Vikings

• Civilization bonuses
  • New civilization bonus: Infantry generate gold when killing Villagers, Trade Units and Monks.
• Chieftains
  • Change to Infantry +5 attack vs cavalry, +4 vs camels; generate gold when killing Villagers, Trade Units and Monks → Infantry +5 attack vs cavalry, +4 vs camels.

Unnecessary buff for a civ that has the best eco in the game and excellent stats across mutiple patches at both mid and higher elos.

[II.Selim]

• Either make the deer unpushable or make scouts automatically push them.
• Make hunt not decaying a feature for everyone and give the Jurchens a new bonus instead.

[Apocalypso4826]

• Take it away from the Jurchens and save it for the Polynesians instead.

[ConcreteHawk121]

@II.Selim

• Either make the deer unpushable or make scouts automatically push them.
• Make hunt not decaying a feature for everyone and give the Jurchens a new bonus instead.

Those are some very hot takes.

Hunt decaying is really important for game balance. https://youtu.be/9LAQMqpWQXY, bascially 250 extra food.

Pushing deer is also part of the game and I think the addition of chickens added enough variety to Arabia.
ALTHOUGH, they could buff the ‘follow’ command and make it properly follow the deer, but ‘pro’ players would probably be annoyed. (right now it goes behind the deer which still makes deer pushing easier for noobs like me but doesnt actually follow it closely)

[KHANATTILA]

@II.Selim

• Either make the deer unpushable or make scouts automatically push them.
• Make hunt not decaying a feature for everyone and give the Jurchens a new bonus instead

But are these things that bother you when you play with Turks or what?

@Pulikesi25

Niche but not a bad idea.

Meanwhile, thank you for the general feedback. Then yes, this is one of the cases where you can really see that the design of the civilisation has evolved over time and some things seem disconnected.

@Pulikesi25

I wouldn’t recommend the extra damage for Mangudai against spears

I keep saying it, it’s a bug they introduced recently and it only affects Elite Mangudai vs Heavy CA. For 20+ years Mangudai and CA have had the same damage against spears, today it’s the same only in Castle Age.

@Pulikesi25

I wouldn’t give any extra hp on castle age lancers though, maybe since its very cheap it can be 25% extra hp.

Today they have this bonus for free. I only wrote +25HP because all technologies/UTs that give extra HP give a fixed value, but the end result is the same.

@Pulikesi25

Civ design is flawed with negligible eco benefits until 35-40 mins nor a very strong generic military bonus anymore. While this change is fine after fixing the eco-military imbalance, not a great change atm.

I have no idea what the devs want to do about Sicilians. Certainly, they are very weak atm.

@Pulikesi25

Unnecessary buff for a civ that has the best eco in the game and excellent stats across mutiple patches at both mid and higher elos.

Come to think of it, Gold Shaft Mining could be removed.

@Pulikesi25

+2 from Yeomen just to Longbows

Same with Logistica, I think such technologies are fundamentally stupid. Why should it only apply to Longbow? What is the logic?

@Pulikesi25

totally unnecessary and removal of the pass through ability on their towers is a huge nerf for late imp.

I understand that I have proposed many changes together, but the UT of the Georgians remains absolutely the same.

[SMUM15236]

[KHANATTILA]

11, in the meantime, I have made some adjustments to Aztecs, Georgians, Mayans and Vikings.

Aztecs

• Civilization bonus: Villagers carry +3 extra resources adjusted → Villagers carry +4 extra resources.

Georgians

• The Archery Range ramains unteched, but:
  • Changed from Mounted units regenerate 2/8/14 hit points per minute in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age → Knight-line and Monaspa regenerate 10/15 hit points per minute in the Castle/Imperial Age.

Maya

• Civilization bonus: Resources last 15% longer adjusted → Resources last 12% longer.

Vikings

• Lose access to Gold Shaft Mining.

[TungstenBoar]

Man, Georgians def have the most dull knight line for a knight civ.