I expect this topic will be controversial among forum regulars, but from my experience and watching high level games Fulani overperform. You might argue this is true for many African units, but I only want to focus on the Fulani Archer here.
From my perspective, the Fulani Archer has two competing design identities: first, as a low damage but tankier version of the Longbow; second, an easy to micro and highly responsive archer. This second is what makes the unit so strong. With 4.5 speed and minimal frame delay, the Fulani is incredibly maneuverable and able to be microed with higher precision than most archers, which gives them a high skill ceiling. Compare with other archers with 1.5 RoF, such as Cetan, Aenna, and ofc the Longbow, and you’ll notice despite the other units having more dps on paper, the Fulani is more effective in practice. It is able to get in damage where other archers would die first, and it can pick when to fight more often.
Perhaps controversially, I would not change the Fulani’s speed or frame delay. I like both of these aspects to the unit and would like to keep them intact if possible. Therefore, these changes below are aimed at sanding down the edges of the unit rather than radically changing it.
Lower Ranged Attack from 9 to 8: I feel like this alone would do a lot to nip the Fulani in the bud. If the issue with the Fulani is they’re too rewarding for the ease of micro, lower the reward you get when using them. With a RoF of 1.5, at 8 attack and after 2 volleys Fulani would still be on par damage-wise with Crossbow and still ahead of age 2 Skirmishers.
Reduce anti-Heavy Infantry bonus from 1.75x to 1.5x: Same as above, this is reducing the reward this unit gets. If there is balance concern from a late game or Treaty perspective, an acceptable workaround would be to give back the .25x bonus damage either with an upgrade or in the card Foido Tactics.
Reduce Base Range from 17 to 16: This always stood out to me as an odd range. Traditionally, starting ranges in AoE 3 are even values, so this must’ve been chosen intentionally (I suppose to let them reach 20 range after Foido Tactics). Rather than convention, I’m here concerned with function; this extra range assists in the ease of micro by letting Fulani connect with the enemy a split second sooner. By reducing the base range to 16, Fulani will attack Crossbow at the same instant, rather than Fulani getting to attack first. Importantly, after Foido Tactics Fulani are now only at 19 range. This means generic Skirm will get the first hit in vs Fulani Archers, although the quicker firing animation of the Fulani may mitigate that somewhat. Like the last point, if there’s a concern over late game or Treaty balance, Fulani could get +1 range from, say, their Champion upgrade.
Reduce Base HP from 120 to 115: This change goes against the grain of the prior changes, but I do think it would be relevant. I like that Fulani are somewhat more tanky than a typical archer unit, but I think they’re smidge too tanky at the moment. Taking this much off is significant, but won’t deviate from that aspect too much.
Reduce the Age II Fulani Shipment from 7 to 6: An indirect Nerf to Fulani, however I think it’s notable. This will put them in line with other ~100 resource units like Longbowmen and Musketeer, and will slow down the Hausa snowball just that little bit.
Finally, I’d just point out any one of these proposed changes could do a lot to affect the feel of the Fulani in game, and if all 5 were implemented simultaneously it’s possible it would be too much. However, the only way to know would be through extensive testing, my suggestions are only guesses as to what might help the unit be more balanced without changing it fundamentally.
discordo totalmente do seu post essa unidade fraca demais única coisa que concordo e a redução de vida
hausa sofre demais na idade 3 e 4 sem acesso fácil de canhons essa unidade junto com o akan musk serve como + - substitui a falta dos canhons
Fulani cost a lot more than a xbow and shouldn’t be on par with a xbow.
You can’t now lower the multi vs HI when it was recently buffed and the reason for it being buffed is they nerfed hausas skirm into non-existence (corsair marksman). Make this a viable unit again to deal with HI and you can lower fulanis multi. Currently they have no other option vs HI.
Again fulani should be considerably better than a xbow and now the fulani is the only skirm type unit hausa have it’s essential that it can also deal with HI adequately and at least stand a chance in a skirm war by getting equal range after cards.
Not necessary, for it’s cost it’s perfectly fine.
I could agree with this so it’s in line with other shipments like 6 longbow as you said.
The only change I could see making is lowering the amount in the shipment to 6, otherwise it’s totally unnecessary as hausa is 1 of the lowest win rate and pick rate civs as it is. There are far more oppressive civs/units like otto abus guns for example.
isn’t hausa the 2nd lowest pick rate of any civ? Yeah fulani might be a bit strong but they’re rather expensive for a low eco civ and since javelin cav have been nerfed heavily and all the other mainline hausa units are rather average it doesnt feel like a unit needing a nerf. the shipment could be reduced without much issue, the rest feels excessive / reverting previous needed buffs.
Reverting corsairs would be a requirement if they want to nerf fulani again. Or revert griots to one pop
Its tough cause hausa has little tempo and gets rolled hard by ff falc civs aka the most popular ones. it also struggles into civs like mexico that can rush and seige it down. however, vs espcially natives or other non musk/heavy inf civs, it simply put demolishes them. hausa has both the best skirm goon massable age2 (combined stats) until very late game. and yet, without ways to scalpel out cannons or the strong shipments of say haude or eco of inca in age3, they sort of need their age2 comp to overperform for age2 units into age3 stuff since its very likely given ff>cannon civs are easier and common to play.
So how to fix how its op vs some civs (age 2 or non age2 skirm civs) but barely if not enough at all ff civs (spain is pain ive witnessed)? i think the shipment to 6 of them reduction would be fine. maybe combine the fulani range card with the age3 card as well so they get their age3 boost but dont dunk on other civs who have to age2 light infantry trivially (in general range inflation in DE wrecks balance tbh, not just here). it would also add space in age2 or 3 as well. not sold on that idea but i think any fair solution would have to address the weakness in age2 vs age3 and also recognize that more the half the civs also do not FF and think how that plays out. ultimately its probably not that big of a deal, but seeing hausa go “bad” to “fotm” on twitch tells me hausa players are probably underselling these things and yet the civ still isnt smashing people like some civs are and its still punishable. just my 2 cents
Totally disagree, now this is the worst idea I’ve ever read on here., Fulani archers are more expensive than European crossbowmen however they perform a little better, literally until a few updates ago they were totally useless in the treaty. What you clearly propose is an ultranerf that destroys the unit and leaves the Hausa without one of its few counters against heavy infantry, turning it into a garbage civ like Italy in treaty.
Any of the treaty players you asked said the unit needed a buff, and now that the devs finally gave it to them someone comes up with this.
I do agree that the fulani is probably either first or second best archer in the game (yumi still exists) and has a lot of near dominating advantages in a number of cases. I was kinda baffled that they buff its multi against heavy since now they do even more damange to heavy in age 2 then even skirms, which most civs don’t even have access to.
but its also important to note its strength in the context of Hausa as a civ, which in general (unless you go outlaws, mercs or native) lack power spikes and is very vulnerable to timing attacks and where it does have power spikes kinda relies on shadow tech age ups which makes it more predictable.
so the hausa gameplan is effectively being able to grind and survive through the oppponent’s timing with really efficient units hence the fulani and its ability to dogde battle and fight at range.
Second, hausa, like japan has no access to skirm units and therefore no access to CIR( for hausa the access is effectively never since you need to both be in imp and use a 2 pop corsair marksman) -side note there is a tech in the game files that gives fulani rifles, showing the devs kinda want to go in this direction but decided not to do it. This means that hausa doesn’t have a good lategame response to heavy infantry compared to other civs. It also means that comparing them to archers is kinda misleading as they are supposed to be the skirm replacement
So you kinda want to just lessen their dominace in the early game so that other civs are more able to bring about the lategame where they fall off.
So here are a few changes I think might work for that :
- base range down to 16 (making light infantry fights slightly more even)
- base multiplier vs heavy to 1.5 (them doing more damage then even skirms in age 2 is just bad balance)
- fulani combat to age 2, fodio tactics to age 3 (this way fulani can still be powerful in age 2 but they can’t absolutely control the flow of battle with increased range)
- fodio tactics increases their range by 4 instead of 3 and increases multiplier against heavy to 1.75 (this way they can fulfill their roles as skirms in the correct age and not have early dominance in age 2)
as for the lategame problems against heavy, either allow the corsair marksman to be 1 pop somehow or increase fulani multipliers with the imp tech or something
think about this in terms of its similar counterpart, the yumi. the upgrades of the yumi follows a similar structure, with stat buffs in age 2 and range buff in age 3 so that they can maintain combat stregth and then transition their roles to skirm in age 3 with increased range
Fulani sucks against heavy infantry (especially before multiplier buff). Civs like Sweden just go full musket and crushes Hausa. It now has 1.75* against musket and become available, but it’s far from OP.
+3 range may be a problem in age II. But hey, Hausa have to upgrade everything in age III and they don’t have 2 cannons. If they can do a smooth semiFF, who loves to fight fortress army with colonial units?
Totally agree, the fulani multipliers hardly make them a soft counter against heavy infantry.
They already have the speed advantage, their vet/guard/imp techs makes them train faster as well, they have an insanely fast firing animation.
Nerfing should be completely off the agenda in a civ with below average win rate imo, nerf the heavy inf multi on fulani and bring back 1 pop corsair marksman I’d be in favour of that but not a nerf without also a buff.
nerf weak civ’s “strong” unit on stat.
You never know how hard for African for defending FF.
All African unit are trash in front of 2 cannons / Gatling Guns / Organ Gun
javelin cav, Zenata Rider used to be soft counter for Artillery,
but all of them are already heavily nerfed