PuP Economy tech discounts nerf Abbasid

With the coming changes that make techs cheaper at resource depots, it’s like giving everyone Abbasid’s feudal Culture Wing tech, Preservation of Knowledge. Sure Abbasid gets the discount for free now too, but it makes going Culture wing less attractive now, the tech becomes almost pointless in the Feudal position that it occupies in the House of Wisdom. Would still be good in castle age before you start purchasing blacksmith techs. But the feudal value is going to be very low now. Fresh Foodstuffs is going to be more than ever the only practical choice.

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Fresh food on landmaps has been default always!!! The reduction on all eco upgrades does not negatively impact culture wing since OPTIMALLY that’s your castle/imp age up option whereby those upgrades still get 30% discounts.

The only civ that has NEGATIVELY been impacted by the reduction in eco upgrades is… Delhi…

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Okay well they should restructure the House of Wisdom again to put more attractive options in the Feudal lineup instead of Foodstuffs for Feudal every time, and then Preservation of Knowledge for Castle every time. It is going to feel like playing a civ with 1 landmark option.

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The HoW definitely needs more rebalancing. Fresh Foodstuffs is still picked first like 99% of the time.

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To be fair its not the only civ with a “single landmark” viable option. HRE has effectively 1 feudal age landmark and likewise imp landmark; same with french feudal. etc etc

TBH, with upcoming teamgames, and the fact that there is an actual majority of maps that has rather safe trade. (Nagari, French pass, Altai, Spires, the pit, mountain pass, to name a few examples)

I don’t get why more people arent running Abbasid tradewing instead.

I mean, I even conjured up a build order that allows you to hit Imperial Age with abbasid within 14 minutes.
With the upcoming PUP and the fact that abbasid traders become even cheaper. (40g 40w), I can hit a 10 minute Imperial abbasid. (but this comes at a severe risk and vournability, which sucks for 1v1 but works out great in Team Games).

Infact the Feudal Tradewing build, on maps like French pass is so extremely efficient I have 4k gold per minute income within the 9 minute mark. The only reason I can’t hit Imperial age any faster is due to the fact that House of Wisdom dosn’t allow you to age up faster than what it already does. (Can’t boost it with vills). And the fact I always get Preservation of Kowledge before going for Imperial age up. which adds another minute into hitting Imperial age.
Just for the fact that, while im aging up, I can start unlocking all techs, and i mean ALL techs due to the insane gold income at this point. 4 Blacksmiths, imams to get relics and all eco and military building techs asap.

So in the 16 minute mark of the game, you shud have all upgrades MAXED as abbasid, including veterancy, - the university ones, which should already be halfways researched by then if you don’t forget to build University right after age up.

Eco Wing is actually the last wing I go for, which isn’t a problem once I’ve unlocked, Infantry Drills, Camel support, Grand Bazaar (shud have this by feudal already) and most importantly Spice Roads. (Which should boost your 4k gold per minute into 6k gold per minute.)

My logic behind this build is simple:

For the price of +1 TC, you could build + 4.5 Markets (5 markets), instead.
Where each trader = 1 Villager, so in a sence, you’ll be pumping out 6 villagers nonstop.
14 vills on wood and having had 4 vills on gold (increase them to 10 over time, while having 8 on food) shud be enough to keep pumping out traders untill you hit 50 traders and watch your economy explode.

Use the overexcess of gold to just buy all the resources to age and tech up, and inflate the stone prices, and start spamming walls and castles everywhere. (I usually always start building a backwall to give the traders some protection again raids)

The build order is quite old. Here I say build economic wing before military wing to hit age 4, but I find getting military wing before economic wing far more benefitial, as most fights in teamgames tend to escalate quite heavily around 13~16 minute mark.
And because you’re so stuffed in Food+Gold from your trade, you can literally start spamming Handcannoneers supported by siege to start dominating the battlefield.

Also the build isnt as “suicidal”.
If you’re willing to slow down your age up by 2 minutes (By keeping 8 vills on food all the time). You can pump out camel-archers as a interim while proceeding booming your econ. Those camel archers do a great job pushing away any early aggressors or anything that might be a threat towards your trade. As well as supporting your teammates early fights.

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I’ll try it sometime. What do you set for your additional trade resource? Would be nice if you could set each market individually and automate all the resources.

usually go for food. There is a severe lagg when switching trade resources, so you shud stick to food until woodline starts turning scarce or you have 30+ vills on farms.
I rarely go siege heavy on abbasid, and tend to always bring 2-3 culverins, and 3 bombards if theres enemie castles and walls, and just spam handcannoneers like no tomorrow with a few making camel archers and eventually camel riders once the econ has settled for full and your stables are up. Always keep your handcannoneers with camels

I don’t know Abbasid that well. Players take this wing that early? I thought military wing was better due to the nature that Abbasid is played? Long feudal 3TC. Mass horsemen+ archers/camel archer. Late to castle age. Military wing helps this play as you’re already ahead economically from vil count. Always thought this wing was only good in imperial when the expensive tech comes in.

As you say the eco buffs just make this wing less appealing, but definitely not a nerf to Abbasid. Only the TC nerf affects them the most with rus. But trade wing getting a buff with cheaper traders.

I guess everything is situational but yeah I was choosing culture wing very frequently in the early game. The military wing used to be awesome in feudal for the armor aura, then I would get culture wing for the cheaper blacksmith upgrades to make my army the strongest it could be. Camel archers were way better back then, their “buffs” to base stats are nothing compared to the utility of the armor aura. Now we just have to get camel archers out of necessity to survive. The armor aura is almost never used by me now because by the time imperial comes around there’s mangonels and gunpowder limiting armor’s value. It really shined in feudal/castle.

Soo I tried out your strat. It wasn’t even close to what you described. I was on a 4v4 mountain pass, figured it’d be the perfect time to do it. Team didn’t help scout much so it took until 4 minutes to scout the trade post and I’m not sure when my villager got to the opposite corner to construct the first market. But it was like 12 minutes before the first trader was returning from its trip across the map. That entire time I was in Feudal, putting all villagers on gold+wood to keep up production of the six markets. Didn’t have any spare resources for anything. But you’re saying you’re hitting imperial by 10 minutes? I call bullshit.

After 12 minutes my massive trade income started to kick in, but I think it was still 16 minutes before I hit castle, 18 to Imperial, the slowest on the map. And then I figured I’d go straight to a wonder, but that still took 25 minutes which is the same amount of time it takes me with two other Abba builds.

does require some training to make it hit off, you will have an extended feudal with the build.
But you’re pretty much going from feudal and directly into imperial as fast as the landmark upgrade allows it.

There are many tiny Micro-things you can do to shave off some time.

Such as at the very beginning, set all your vills in gathering food while 1 builds the mill. spread them on different berry bushes.
By the time the mill finished, they should be almost finish gathering the first batch. (this shud grant u almost 100 food 30 seconds ahead of time.)

Timing on your first house to so that it finishes right before the next villager is finished while pop-capped.

Letting your first rallied miner on gold gather 10 gold before he starts building a mining camp. Make sure the second vill on gold also helps finishing the miningcamp when it hits 10 gold. (which it shud right around when the mining camp is at 80% done).

By this time, the villager who built the first house shud also be finished building the House of Wisdom which you qeued right after the house. Who then goes to gold.

This should buy you 1 min earlier into feudal that usually, which means you can kick off the trade 1 min later.

Another trick, if there is no early aggression or you are in the “middle” of a teamgame.
I like sending 2 villager from food into each trade corner of the map, when you start researching feudal. (so you have 6 on food instead of 8).
Once i hit feudal, I send 2 vills from gold and another 2 vills from Food over to wood to kickstart the wood eco. While rally the 2 next vills under production to gold before putting it back to wood.
Once I have around 15 vills on wood i rally new vills over to gold untill i hit 8 on gold then new vills over to food untill i hit 12 on food.

By this time I shud be having 5 markets up spamming traders at all time + 1 vill constantly building houses, untill i hit 50 traders.

Another vital trick is not over-qeueing of units. Qeue only right before units are finished.

This shud prevent you hitting downtime, such as preventing u form building houses waiting for the next batch of wood to kick in, or traders due to lack of gold when starting a upgrade.

3v3 on French pass I can hit a 10 min Imperial if I play super risky by making myself vournarable for early raids.

Reason for this is because in French pass you have 2 Neutral markets.
I then build 3 markets on both sides doing the rallying trick so your traders pick up gold immidietly when done producing. (Shift click rallying your markets onto your own market first then onto neutral market next to the markets your putting up rally point).
Only having 4 vills on food right after getting the Grand Bazaar upgrade when hitting feudal.
And not putting more vills on food untill i have 9 on gold and 16 on wood.
This shud half the time it takes for the first trade to kick in.