PUP Sept 2024 (9th Season) - Release Notes [DISCUSSIÓN]

PUP Sept 2024 (9th Season) - Release Notes [DISCUSSIÓN]


Hello everybody, is me GoldenArmorX.

Well, I’m opening this thread to discuss the changes that are planned to be implemented due to the Public Update Preview of the ninth season (9th Season).

Here is a copy paste from the Reddit forum where most of the changes were posted. Note that some extra changes might be missing.


Release Notes - PUP Sept 2024


The Age of Empires IV Season Nine Public Update Preview (PUP) is set to run from Tuesday, September 17, through Tuesday, September 24, at 9 a.m. PT!

Season Nine is shaping up to be one of our most ambitious gameplay updates to date. With far-reaching changes across several systems impacting every civilization in every game, we are bringing this PUP to you early in the hopes that we can gather meaningful feedback as we continue to work on the update.

Feedback at this stage is critical, as it will allow us to further hone balance, features and bug fixes prior to the official release of Season Nine. Many changes are experimental and may be adjusted as we gather data from the PUP, as well as some features and fixes already planned for Season Nine may not be present in this build. We’ll be considering your feedback not only as we continue the development of our Season Nine Update, but also as we consider mid-season patches.

Finally, note that this is a preview build of an upcoming update to Age of Empires IV . Some features in this preview are not yet final.


0).- Guide


  • 1.- Feature Spotlight (Maps changes, bugs, visuals)
  • 2.- Siege Gameplay (Rework)
  • 3.- University Updates (New Tecnologie and changes)
  • 4.- Civilization Changes (New Units, Techs and Bonuses)

1).- Feature Spotlight


  • Multiplayer Pause: It is now possible to pause the game during a multiplayer match.
    • Any player may pause at any time, but each player has a limited number of pauses per match.
    • All players have the option to resume the game after a brief timeout.
    • NOTE: This feature is still in active development; this means that you may encounter bugs, performance issues, etc. Please let us know what you encounter in the forums!

Maps

  • Two new exciting maps have been added:
    • Atacama: Even the strongest warlords will be tested by the harsh and exposed conditions of the Atacama Desert.
    • Lake Side: A lake rests in the cradle of a mountainous region. High above each side of the lake different factions prepare for inevitable conflict.

Balance & Gameplay

Bugfixes

  • Corrected an issue causing English Trebuchets to attack slower after Shattering Projectiles technology was researched.
  • Corrected an issue where the Japanese Kura Storehouse would be selected using the “Select all Outposts” hotkey.
  • Byzantine Aqueducts no longer have the “convert to palisade gate ability” while under construction.
  • The population indicator no longer changes for a single frame when constructing siege in the field with Infantry.
  • Fixed an exploit for Rus where gold from gold mines could be converted into Bounty.
  • Bounty is shown on the Villager UI with a different icon.
  • Chinese Imperial Officials no longer override player commands which are issued on exactly the first frame after the Official automatically chooses a tax drop-off, whilst in an idle state and at maximum tax capacity.

Gameplay

Projectiles Updated:
  • Arrow projectiles have been updated to have smoother, more natural trajectories.
  • Now accounts for the height difference between two units when calculating trajectory arcs.
  • The trajectory should look more ‘natural’, i.e. Archers on a Wall or on a high cliff no longer aiming upwards even if the target is very close.
  • Keep and Outpost trajectories are smoother when targeting units below them.
  • Arrows no longer teleport to find the target on the final frame.
  • This was especially noticeable if the unit died during the arrows flight.
  • Units will no longer fire projectiles at units in their death animation.
New post game graphs added:
  • Includes: Total Resources Gathered, Total Food Gathered, Total Wood Gathered, Total Gold Gathered, and Total Stone Gathered.
Multiplayer Pause:
  • Custom lobbies now have the option to allow players to pause the game.
  • Each player will get 5 pauses to use throughout the game.
  • All players have the option to resume the game after a brief timeout.

2).- Siege Gameplay


Developer Overview:

“Our goal with the Siege Update is to slow down siege on siege combat by removing the anti-siege role from Springalds and Culverins and increasing time to kill on many siege interactions. With these adjustments, winning the backline siege battle will now mean you have effective tools for pushing on the field. Additionally, adjustments to siege durability have been made across the board to tune unit to siege interactions, specifically ranged units will no longer either one shot or never kill siege weapons and instead will deal more consistent damage to all siege. High level changes directly below, followed by the detailed change list.”

  • Springalds reworked from an anti-siege role to an anti-melee infantry role with special projectiles that pierce their target which pass through enemy formations for devastating effect.
  • Culverins reworked from anti-siege to a unique bombard replacement for several civilizations.
  • Adjusted the armor of all siege engines from ranged armor to ranged damage reduction (referred to as Ranged Resistance).

Siege Durability:

  • Ram and Siege Towers reduce incoming ranged damage by 95%.
  • Bombards, Cannons, and Culverins reduce incoming ranged damage by 85%.
  • Trebuchets reduce incoming ranged damage by 80%.
  • Mangonels and Nest of Bees reduce incoming ranged damage by 75%.
  • Springalds reduce incoming ranged damage by 60%.
  • Ribauldequins reduce incoming ranged damage by 35%.

Bombard-type Adjustments:


  • Bombard:
    • Health reduced from 240 → 210.
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 85% Ranged Resistance.
    • Base damage reduced from 100 → 50.
    • Gains +50 bonus damage vs. Infantry.

  • Culverin:
    • Unit Reworked into a unique Bombard Replacement for several civilizations that fires faster, has additional range, and deals less damage than standard bombards.
    • Cost reduced from 400 wood 600 gold → 325 wood 450 gold.
    • Health reduced from 220 → 200.
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 85% Ranged Resistance.
    • Base damage reduced from 85 → 40.
    • Gains +230 bonus damage vs. Buildings and Ships.
    • Gains +40 bonus damage vs. Infantry.
    • Bonus damage vs. Siege removed.
    • Reload time increased (attack speed reduced) from 3.375 to 3.625 .
    • Range reduced from 12 → 11.
    • Now fully replace Bombards for Holy Roman Empire, Order of the Dragon, Abbasid Dynasty and Ayyubids.
    • Removed from Malians.

  • Cannon:
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 85% Ranged Resistance.
    • Base damage reduced from 100 → 55.
    • Gains +55 bonus damage vs. Infantry.

  • Great Bombard:
    • Health Reduced from 300 → 250 (+210 early version ).
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 85% Ranged Resistance.
    • Base damage reduced from 190 → 70 (+55 early version).
    • Gains +150 bonus damage vs. Infantry (+120 early version).

Springald Adjustments:

  • Springald:
    • Cost reduced from 250 wood 250 gold → 150 wood 100 gold.
    • Health reduced from 125 → 75.
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 60% Ranged Resistance.
    • Melee Armor increased from 0 → 3.
    • Base damage reduced from 30 → 15.
    • Gain +10 bonus damage vs. Melee Infantry.
    • Range reduced from 10 → 8.
    • Population Cost reduced from 3 → 2.
    • Fires bolts that pierce through multiple units.
    • No longer has homing projectiles.

Roller Shutter Triggers Technology:

  • No longer provides additional range to Springalds, only provides +25% attack speed.

Trebuchet Adjustments:

  • Counterweight Trebuchet:
    • Health reduced from 170 → 140.
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 80% Ranged Resistance.
    • Population cost reduced from 3 → 2.
  • Traction Trebuchet:
    • Health reduced from 150 → 125.
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 80% Ranged Resistance.
    • Population cost reduced from 3 → 2.
  • Huihui Pao:
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 80% Ranged Resistance.

Mangonel Adjustments:

  • Mangonel:
    • Ranged Armor replaced with 75% Ranged Resistance.
    • Bonus damage vs. Ranged increased from 6 → 8.
    • Bonus damage vs. Buildings increased from 24 → 30.
    • Range reduced from 9 → 8.
    • Unit responsiveness improved:
      • Aim time reduced from 0.5 → 0.25 seconds.
      • Wind-down increased from 2.25 → 2.5 seconds.
      • Each boulder’s blast radius reduced from 0.875 → 0.5 tiles.
      • Projectile spread reduced from 0.75 → 0.5 tiles.
      • No longer predicts movement and instead fires directly at the target.

Adjustable Crossbars Technology:

  • Cost increased from 300 wood 700 gold, 90 seconds → 1000 wood 1200 gold, 110 seconds.
  • Effect changed from +25% attack speed to +100% splash radius and +1 projectile added to Mangonel Attacks.
  • Mongols Improved Adjustable Crossbars removed.

Nest of Bees:

  • Ranged Armor replaced with 75% Ranged Resistance.
  • Range reduced from 8 → 7.
  • Developer Note: “Damage has been naturally reduced because Chemistry no longer grants additional base damage.”

Additional Barrels Technology:

  • Cost increased from 200w 500g → 400w 800g.
  • Effect increased from 1 → 2 additional rockets.

Ribauldequin:

  • Health reduced from 350 → 225.
  • Ranged Armor replaced

Ram and Siege Tower:

  • Ranged Armor replaced with 95% Ranged Resistance.

3).- University Update


Developer Overview:

“Our goal with the University Update is to spice up the late game by creating a more meaningful set of decisions at the University by altering the cost, effect, or both. Now these upgrades should be both more situational and more powerful when those situations arise.”

Incendiary Arrows

  • Cost increased from 300 wood 700 gold → 500 wood 1000 gold.
  • Added an additional effect: Non-gunpowder ranged units gain +20% damage & deal additional siege damage to Buildings.
  • Archer-type units deal 3 siege damage when firing on a Buildings (with exceptions).
  • Mounted Archer-type units deal 3 siege damage (with exceptions).
  • Crossbowmen deal 4 siege damage (with exceptions).
  • Notable Exceptions:
    • Tower Elephants (Delhi Sultanate) and Desert Raiders (Ayyubids) do not use siege arrows against Buildings, as they use Tusk and Torch attacks respectively.
    • Zhuge Nu (Chinese/Zhu Xi), Cavalry Archers (Ottomans), and Mangudai (Mongols) deal 2 damage instead of the general bolt/arrow amount.
    • Gilded Archers (Order of the Dragon) deal 6 siege damage, and Gilded Crossbowmen deal 8 siege damage.

Biology

  • Cost increased from 300 food 700 gold → 500 food 1000 gold.
  • Cavalry health increased from 20% → 30%.
  • Mongols Biology (Improved) Cost increased from 1000 → 1500 stone.
    • Grants 40% health to all Cavalry, 10% if Biology has already been researched.
  • French Royal Bloodlines Cost stays at 300 food 700 gold.
    • Cavalry health increased from 35% → 40%.

Chemistry

  • Cost reduced from 300 food 700 gold, 90 seconds → 200 food 650 gold, 60 seconds.
  • Effect changed from gunpowder units +20% base damage → Gunpowder Siege engines gain +25% bonus damage.
  • Delhi Sultanate research time reduced from 1080 seconds → 720 seconds.
  • Developer Note: “Gunpowder Siege primarily deals damage to specific targets with bonus damage, this change makes gunpowder siege weapons significantly better against specific targets – namely buildings.”

Elite Army Tactics

  • Cost increased from 300 food 700 gold → 400 food 1200 gold.
  • Effect changed from melee Infantry +20% health and +20% damage → +4 melee armor and +20% base damage.
  • Mongols Improved Elite Army Tactics cost adjusted to 1600 stone, +30% base damage and +6 armor.
  • Japanese Oda Tactics changed from melee Infantry +20% health, +20% base damage, and +20% torch damage → +20% base damage, +4 melee armor, and +20% torch damage.

Siege Works

  • Effect changed from siege engines +20% health and +10 ranged armor → siege engines +20% health.
  • Mongols Siege Works (Improved) effect changed to +30% health; +10% health if Siege Works has already been researched.

New Tech: " Serpentine Powder"

  • Cost: 300 food 500 gold, 60 seconds.
  • Available in the Imperial Age.
  • Effect: Handcannoneers gain +8 bonus damage versus melee Infantry and a brief boost of movement speed upon firing their weapon.
  • Delhi Sultanate research time: 720 seconds.
  • Mongols do not get an Improved Serpentine Powder upgrade.
  • Zhu Xi and Ottomans don’t get access to Serpentine Powder.

New Tech: " Silk Bowstrings"

  • Cost: 400 wood 400 gold, 60 seconds.
  • Available in the Imperial Age.
  • Effect: Archers +2 Range, Mounted Archers +1 Range.
  • Delhi Sultanate research time: 720 seconds.
  • Delhi Sultanate Tower Elephants do not benefit from this upgrade.
  • Mongols do not get an Improved Silk Bowstring upgrade.
  • Zhu Xi does not get access to Silk Bowstrings.

General Changes


  • Horticulture, Fertilization, and Precision Cross-Breeding upgrades effect reduced from 15% → 10% faster food gathering.
  • Mongol improved food upgrades benefit reduced from 7.5% → 5%
  • Boar food increased from 2000 → 2200
  • Extended Lines reduced from 20% → 15% gather rate
  • Drift Nets reduced from 15% → 10% gather rate
  • Berry gather rate increased from 0.66 → 0.69
  • Dehli Sultanate, Ayyubids, and Abbasid Dynasty berry bonus reduced from 35% → 30%.
  • All tier 2 and 3 economic upgrades get new icons.
  • Acid Distillation has been renamed to Shaft Mining.
  • Melee unit torch damage increased from 16 → 17 in Castle Age and 20 → 22 in Imperial Age.
  • Palisade Wall build time increased from 4 seconds → 8 seconds.
  • Outpost health increased from 750 → 800.
  • Rus Wooden Fortress unchanged at 1750 health.
  • Horsemen attack bonus vs. siege now scales with base damage, instead of 10 at all ranks. Adjusted from +10 at all tiers to +8/9/11/13 for Early/Feudal/Veteran/Elite.
  • Order of the Dragon Gilded Horseman adjusted to +15/18/20 instead of +15 at all ranks.
  • Ottoman Sipahi and Delhi Sultanates Ghazi Raider also get +9/11/13 versus siege instead of matching their higher damage.

4).- Civilization Changes


Chinese:

  • Additional Barrels cost increased from 200 wood 500 gold → 400 wood 800 gold.
  • Additional Barrels effect increased from 1 → 2 additional rockets.
  • Grenadier attack made more responsive:
    • Grenadier aim time reduced from 0.5 → 0 seconds.
    • Grenadier reload time increased from 0.75 → 1.25 seconds.

Delhi Sultanate:

  • New Naval technology: Salvaged Materials (240 seconds).
  • Baghlah heal 30 health when sinking an enemy ship.
  • Available in Castle Age.

French:

  • Docks provide +10 population space.

Holy Roman Empire:

  • Meinwerk Palace:
    • Riveted Chain has been replaced with Awl Pikes, which grants +3 damage to Spearmen and Horsemen.
    • Garrisoned Relic effect reduced from 50% → 25% armor and 35% → 25% damage.
    • Reinforced Defenses reduced from +40% → +25%.
    • Emplacement discount reduced from 25% →20%.
    • Town Center ranged armor reduced from 75 → 50.
    • Aachen Chapel range reduced from 7.5 → 6.5.

Japanese:

  • Each tier of the Daimyo Manor’s farm gather rate aura reduced from 25% → 20%.
  • Developer Note: “This is to keep Japanese food scaling in line with other civilizations.”

Jeanne d’Arc:

  • Docks provide +10 population space.
  • Jeanne d’Arc Companion Riders moved to the Stable, Companion Champion moved to the Barracks.
  • Companion Equipment moved to the respective building.
  • Jeanne d’Arc gains half experience from constructing before the Capital Town Center is constructed on Nomad.

Malians

Farimba Garrison

  • Aging up with the Farimba now gives you the choice to enlist one of three new units: the Mansa Musofadi, Mansa Javelineer, and the Mansa Freeborn.
    • Mansa Musofadi : a tougher version of the regular Musofadi boasting higher melee armor and health.
    • Mansa Javelineer : a faster moving Javelin thrower that deals poison damage.
    • Mansa Freeborn : a high pierce armor melee unit.
  • The Mansa Musofadi and Mansa Javelineer replace their counterparts at their respective Buildings whilst the Mansa Freeborn is a new unit that is trainable from the Barracks.
  • Players can choose another one of the remaining two options if they reach the Imperial Age.

Saharan Trade Network

  • Acts as a Toll Outpost that comes with Defensive Javelins Emplacement.
  • In addition to previous effects, the Saharan Trade Network now grants all other Toll Outposts the Defensive Javelin Emplacement, replacing the standard Arrowslits Emplacement.
  • Javelin Emplacements have 8 range, 11 base damage and 1.38 attack speed with +2 damage vs. Ranged Units.
  • Costs 75 gold.

Order of the Dragon

  • Garrisoned Relic effect reduced from 50% → 25% armor and 35% → 25% damage.
  • Reinforced Defenses effect reduced from +40% → +25% health.
  • Emplacement discount reduced from 25% → 20%.
  • Town Center ranged armor reduced from 75 → 50.
  • Aachen Chapel range reduced from 7.5 → 6.5.
  • All gilded unit Castle Age Torch Damage increased from 24 → 25, Imperial Age Torch Damage increased from 28 → 30.

Ottomans

  • Janissary Guns effect increased from +3 → +5 damage.

Imperial Council

  • Fast Training has been removed and its +25% production speed effect has been added to Advanced Academy.
  • Four new Imperial Council upgrades are available:
    • Extensive Fortifications (Tier 2): All garrison arrows are replaced with crossbow bolts, which deal +2 bonus damage vs. heavy units.
    • Timariots (Tier 2): Enables Cavalry Archers to be trained from the Archery Range and Military School.
    • Pax Ottomana (Tier 3): Villager production speed increased by +50% for 4 minutes.
    • Great Bombard (Tier 4): A Great Bombard arrives at the Capital Town Center.
      • Early version used before Imperial Age, automatically upgrades upon reaching the Imperial Age.
  • Trade Bags and Siege Crews have been moved from tier 2 to tier 4.

Military Schools

  • Knight production speed reduced by 28% and Janissary production speed reduced by 25%.
  • Developer Note : “This ensures that Knights and Janissaries produce for the same resources per minute from the Military School as other military units.”

Janissary

  • Receives Ranged Unit tag.
  • Receives a new “Light Ranged Gunpowder Infantry” tag.
  • Normal Handcannoners no longer classified as Light.
  • Archers gain bonus vs Light Gunpowder Infantry.
  • Bonus damage vs. Cavalry reduced from 16/20 → 12/15.
  • Developer Note : “As a result of these changes, Janissaries will only receive bonus damage from Archers rather than all ranged attacks and will be less extreme in its relationship versus cavalry units.”

Rus

  • Fortified Palisade Wall build time increased from 3 seconds → 8 seconds.
  • Banded Arms technology range effect for Springalds increased from 0.5 → 1.

Zhu Xi

  • New Technology - Dali Horses : All Cavalry gain +20% Attack Speed. 75 food 175 gold, 45 seconds. Available in the Feudal Age.
  • Imperial Guard reload time adjusted from 1.5 → 1.75 seconds.
  • Yuan Raider reload time adjusted from 1.5 → 1.62 seconds.
  • New Technology - Hard Cased Bombs’‘’‘(Update)’‘’': Attacks reduce 15% the Melee and Ranged resistence of enemy units for 5 seconds.
  • Early Grenadier becomes available in Castle Age.
  • Grenadier attack made more responsive:
    • Grenadier aim time reduced from 0.5 → 0 seconds.
    • Grenadier reload time increased from 0.75 → 1.25 seconds.3.

Note: (Updte) There was a mistake in the description of the notes of Hard Cases Bombs, their real effect, which reduce the resistence of enemy units, is now corrected,


Fuentes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/1fj4doh/pup_sept_2024_release_notes/


5 Likes

I was surprised to see no new civ changes for the Byzantines, maybe will be added at a later time considering this is a pup build. Apart from that, looks like this patch will change the meta in the game.

However something that I’m not liking is how they keep nerfing the walls, health, build time etc every time, one of AoE4 amazing new features compared to older titles is the new wall with units on them. I rarely see this being used and no wonder, they get nerfs constantly.

3 Likes

Most top players come from Starcraft 2, and they’re most probably pushing hard for weak static defenses, because they’re very comfortable with harassing villagers and getting harassed. Considering how weak the wooden walls were, I don’t see any reason why they should have double the build time. They clearly don’t want you to secure areas of the map using walls, they want your pocket eco to be easily harassable and both players to lose villagers constantly.

2 Likes

Its sad that the game I enjoyed is being chipped away every patch because of something I have no interest in… Can’t they just have tournament rules or maps where stone piles are reduced and its harder to wall rather than mess about with everyones game to satisfy esports?

3 Likes
  • Incendiary arrow needs to deal bonus damage to siege too
  • Professinal army cost must be lowered
  • Farimba garrison’s new copy paste units should be deleted and it must get a imperial tech for farimba to make it better.
  • Springald should have fixed range for example if enemy 2 tiles away it still will fire 7 tile and penetrate everything in its path.
  • How are we gonna deal with siege now?
  • Devs im writing this for you.Ottoman vizier points were fine.Problem was the Istanbul Imperial Palace you guys get out of the road.The 4th line of vizier point only applied with that landmark.I suggest revert back the vizier points add a 4th line for Istanbul Imperial Palace landmark.Also you should be able chose only one of those 4th line bonuses.

What can be at 4th line:

  • Blacksmith aura increase villager train speed by%15

  • +1 Military school limit

  • Horse archer with cheaper version and with faster train time its stat should remain same(i may come with better option for this one)

                                       OR 
    
  • For the third bonus it can be that defensive bonus with improved attack bonus because it will be special to only this landmark.Like garrisoned units attack with +4 more damage and +4 bonus damage to armoured units.Also %10 cheaper defesive buildings.

And you will be able to chose only one of those.

Edit:Also janissary company vizier point can be replaced by horse archer.Which it will be same attack damage with normal archers but it will be attack twice like in the beta.It will cost total 120 resource with 90 health and 1.6 attack speed with 5 range , 1.75 move speed.

Edit:

  • Incendiary arrows should also make all archers do same damage to buildings.Specially mongols.
  • I liked the new economy tech pics it can be done to blacksmith too.
  • Pause is great

I was worried too, but after i saw beasty’s video testing the new siege, realized that they are weak. I liked It, but i dindnt test yet. Id like to know about ribauldequin

Ok i got the whats wrong with springalds they have fixed range like i said but when they attack moving targets somehow the bolt they fired go missing after hitting one unit or its hitting the ground

3 Likes

Huge siege rework and nothing for the siege tower or the geometry/greek fire techs for trebuchets?

3 Likes

I tried the beta version and the content of this test was shocking. With the addition of so many units to counter melee infantry and the weakening of melee technology, there is no longer a need for warriors after Age 4. Expensive in price, restrained by all long-range forces, slow in speed, and low in damage, the Holy Roman Empire and other melee infantry tribes were unable to use their characteristic units in the later stages, greatly weakening them. The weakening of gunpowder technology has led to the disappearance of China’s gunpowder ethnic characteristics, and there is no corresponding compensation. The output capability of firearms soldiers cannot match such an expensive price. On the other hand, the cavalry ethnic group has received tremendous strengthening. The modifications made to the siege weapons were copied from Empire Era 2. The crossbow carriage was too weak, while the Mongol crossbow carriage was too powerful. The archer’s range was greatly increased, and they could even kill siege weapons outside the range of the siege weapons. The siege weapons, infantry, and cavalry were completely unable to resist the English longbow standing on the stone wall. The weakening of wooden walls is also difficult to understand. Age of Empires 4 has been balancing for so long, why test such a huge change in one version to completely overturn the previous balance? Why can’t we slowly test and gradually modify? I am very concerned about this update

3 Likes

Yes, english will be the meta If they dont address longbow and Wynguard Ranger range attack.

3 Likes

I agree they should make a an english only tech that replaces the new university upgrade.
Instead of giving + 2 range it could give something like 0.5 range and put the longbowmen / rangers movespeed to the level of normal archers instead. With this at least they wont be turning the counter system upside down by outranging mangonels (well in case of the longbowmen at least).

5 Likes

Longbowman imba!!! England op! How can i deal with Longbowman and Ribauldequin in age 4? The technology of Silk Bowstrings or Longbowman&Wynguard ranger must be changed!

5 Likes

What a crazy and senseless change

1 Like

They want us to make more units than siege then
Siege would be very specific to use!

4 Likes

I forget to mention but this is very important when you put a waypoint on resource from building it turns blue.I liked they noticed that little detail it was turning blue before too its very helpfull to understand where you clicked.

Mangonels feels like a bit useless now. Every mangonel should kill like 8 archers to be worthy. It would be better if they were like mini trebuchets used to attack buildings from a distance and not like a ram All in. They are supposed to counter range units, but range units can easily kill mangonels now, specially in line formation it is imposible 2 mangonels can kill 16 archers before they do.
If they were available in feudal age like mini trebuchets (less damage and range), I think they could find a place in meta without being a cancer or totally useless.

1 Like

They didnt have to do those changes just lower the mangonel damage to units and icrease its damage to building everything is solved also same thing needs to be done to nest of bees too.

Maybe, but they are expensive. If they are not good against units, I would preffer trebs because of that long range. The only way I would go mangonels against buildings is that they were cheaper or available 1 age before.

1 Like

Crossbowmen are also supposed to counter the men-at-arms, but the latter lose to them, given equal resources :wink: :wink:
https://youtu.be/bmCW51RS_2Y?si=XHDjM_X2-3RmbVfK&t=293