QoL change request for HRE prelates and Delhi Scholars

Hi there,

There is an old issue with HRE Prelates and Delhi scholars most likely because they have the same generic code as for other religious units for other civs. If one attempts to queue a pick up a relic command and a right click to put the relic inside say an outpost when playing HRE the prelate will actually end up garrisoning while holding the relic. At the time one queues the commands the game does not recognize that after the first command the right click should be a put relic command rather than garrison and that’s why the garrison cursor appears.

As far as I know besides right clicking, there is no command/hotkey for putting relics inside buildings so the only way to avoid the problem at the moment is to wait for the prelate to pick up the relics first and pray not to do it late/forget about the prelate.

While HRE only have the issue when they decide to put relics in fortifications, Delhis have the issue all the time since it happens to their mosques as the scholars can garrison inside.

I believe a lot of players would appreciate if this gets fixed in some future patch or update.

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This is true i find my delhi scholars always holding relics inside. I thought it was just me or because i had max relics there he just held onto it inside. Its tough in team games trying to get all of them and waiting til they have it to right click again lol

Agreed, this always annoys me. Can you post this on the bugs forum too?

I don’t know tbh that is why I didn’t post it there. Hopefully some moderator sees the post and maybe moves it there if needed. Logically it should be considered a bug but I did not consider it a bug because the programmers didn’t really make a mistake but rather didn’t take care of some special cases.

This is kinda my anger with this game, i dont think they gave it much testing or the fundamental structure of their coding is just poor.

Pathing, nonsense like this posted here annoys me a lot more than imbalanced stuff in the game.

I’ve just setup fully remappable keys and find that it’s really poorly tested work. One needs to simply change all keys and research everything to see how many issues there actually are.

I wouldn’t blame the developers tbh 1) because there are way too many things and complexe situations in this game 2) There is really little feedback (I am relatively new to the game but I am trying my best to report bugs I come across, there are lot of people who just don’t report so the developers don’t get enough feedback. The fact that the number of players is “relatively” samll does not help.

There are tons of people making ‘amazing’ threads on reddit but they don’t report bugs or talk about things that actually make the game better. Instead they complaing about Player X doing this and that and saying such and such in his stream or spam 10000 thread on trading.

Recently I reported a few hotkey bugs and asked myself how are the pro who play a lot and must be using those hotkeys (like cycle through mills for example) not noticing the bugs or do they notice them and don’t report? I would expect this thing with prelates to have been reported ages ago, there is no way someone plays HRE/Delhi (unless it is a noob who doesn’t use hotkeys or queue commands) and does not notice it. To me the pro players should be the first to report issues and bugs.

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Excellent post and QoL Request!
Fun fact: It the same phenomenon with professional scouts interestingly. If (before carrying carcass) you queue up a mill as dropoff, it is fine just like an HRE monastery. But if you try to use TC (or castle for that matter) as a dropoff, the Scout will garrison.

3 suboptimal workarounds:

  1. Queue to right next to outpost or keep. (Though really, this is no better than being in the keep.) Then put it in there when he gets there.
  2. Alternatively, just have him drop it off at monastery (hopefully near target keep). That way you can at least get the gold. Meanwhile when you remember him he can immediately pick it up and you will have the drop arrow and can now move it to keep.
  3. I (think) if the outpost or keep (or Delhi Mosque) is full, then the problem goes away! So just fill outpost with some pikemen or 5 scholars in mosque. (I have to check this to be sure.)

Regardless, this would be a great patch fix. As well as new separate hotkeys for (cycle & select-all) “prelate manufacturing” buildings and “relic containing” buildings (currently it is neither, but rather selects all buildings “capable of relic holding”.)

:crossed_swords:

the update for the explorers to leave the deer before picking them up worked fine, you should do the same with the monks

Which is exactly what we want to avoid having to do (and which is what I have been doing so far, and I guess most people do the same) hence we want to queue commands and not having to check every now and then where the scholars are and when they arrive especially since we do those kind of things with multiple scholars in parallel while also having to manage armies/economies and the opponent contesting the relics. And this is the reason I am requesting a change because it is very impractical to do.

I typically make monsateries to avoid the headache, but you know even when you want to say move the relic from a monstery to e.g your Elzbach Palace queuing right click on the monstery while your prelate is NOT near it then right clicking the Palace will lead to garrison. Typically you should not have prelate idling near monasteries.

I didn’t think of this very specific scenario with fully garrisoned buildings so I made a quick test to see what happens. Indeed if those buildings are full then the guy puts the relic without issues.( see the vids below)


As well as new separate hotkeys for (cycle & select-all) “prelate manufacturing” buildings and “relic containing” buildings (currently it is neither, but rather selects all buildings “capable of relic holding”

I thought the button that is supposed to cycle through monasteries was bugged and I reported it some time ago (I am a new player) because it doesn’t make any sense (and iirc it gives a higher priority to the dock rather than monasteries, sometimes you want to produce a prelate … it selects docks then outposts… literally everything before monasteries which is what we are actually looking for, it is super annoying. And it is not like there aren’t hotkeys for cycling through docks etc. At the time I didn’t notice that they were exactly the buildings that can hold relics. You think this was deliberate? or was it requested at some point in the past?

Which is what most people have been doing with monks despite the inconvenience. It does not mean it shouldn’t be changed and we have to live with it forever. Queuing commands exist for a reason, otherwise let us remove it from the game because we can always execute those commands one at a time.

I am not a native of English, but I commented in your favor, I also like to use all the hotkeys

I am not sure what you had meant, but basically you told me I should do something which I (and everyone else) was already doing and is the reason I made this thread in the first place because it was something annoying to do. Maybe you misunderstood and assumed that I was getting my prelates garrisoned without noticing which is not the case at all, from the very beginning I noticed the awkward behavior but was lazy to report.

I saw that you posted it in the error thread, you did the right thing, just wait, your request will be put on a wait according to a priority order and they will fix it

you said it, you’re relatively new to the game, ive played this game since the start. there are a lot of issues that don’t get fixed after a lot of complaints. maybe after 1 year.

they spent their energy on ‘balance changes’ zzzzzz

Well I don’t think the guys working on balance change are the same that work on fixing bugs though.

yeah? then what do you think they are working on?

No idea lol and I don’t know the staff size… But I know that debugging is a usually a nightmare no matter how silly the bug is (I am not really a programmer but I do some computational stuff like matlab etc and I hate when there is something wrong in the code and it takes forever to spot it). Finding what causes the bug in the code is very time consuming especially when there is no logical relationship involved and what you observe appears to be absurd.
For example it is easy to spot a bug I reported lately on English influence stacking multiplicatively with other gathering speed buffs you can just go to the equations in which you wrote something like X=X*EN_Influence_Mult or whatever. Here you can guess what could have happened in the code even if you didn’t code yourself and you just track the variables related to gathering speed and the corresponding expressions in the code. But if you are observing a villager walking on water then good luck finding what causes the bug and fixing the code.

I forgot to mention that I originally did what you were talking about i.e queue a move command near the building and put the relics later on. Then I stopped doing so because there is the risk of forgetting and since then I don’t queue if I intend to put the relic in a tower instead of making a new monastery. Instead I wait for the relic to be picked up, because the relic sound is a reminder, once I hear it I cycle through my prelates, find the guy and send him to the tower

ive played quite a few games, its not hard to tell the difference between quality work and sloppy work. yes there are unintended errors due to very complicated scenarios, this happens in every game and then theres errors due to simply not doing thorough testing (or even basic testing) or even acknowledging this.

a developer for instance could appear and say “we’ll look into improving this”.