Random civ vs pick civ: Tyranny of the majority

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I dont really like the current set up of ranked games for pick civ or random civ. For those who dont know the current rules:

Every player can vote for pick civ or random civ in ranked.

  1. If the majority of the votes are for random civ, then it will be random civ.
  2. Otherwise (majority for pick civ or both options gets 50% of all votes) it will be picked.

This system is by design already in favor of picked civ. But needed a strict majority means it is even more rare to get random civ.

I do think this system has some major flaws. As result it fells for the trap of tyranny of the majority. The majority gets much more power then they deserve. And the voice of the minority is counted less. Just let a look at the numbers:

What to me looks fair is the following: If x% of all players want to play random civ and so y=100-x% of all players want to play pick civ, then also about x% of all games is pick civ and y% of all games is random civ. With the current system, that is not the case. Just some examples for a 4v4:

If 10% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 0.04% of all games.
If 20% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 1.04% of all games.
If 30% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 5.80% of all games.
If 40% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 17,37% of all games.
If 50% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 36,33% of all games.
If 60% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 59,41% of all games.
If 70% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 80,59% of all games.
If 80% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 94,37% of all games.
If 90% of all players want to play random civ, then it will happen in 99,50% of all games.

For these percentages i assumed everyone in a game picked pick civ or random civ at random with given pick rates.

Based on this i have two oberservations:

  1. The numbers are in favor of pick civ. This is because in case of a 50/50 split, it will be always pick civ… This makes the numbers a bit skewed in the direction of pick civ.
  2. The play rates are very much skewed based on the pick rates. The majority is much more in control. In much more games it gets what it want.

Then we also have a different possible issue as well. In above case we assumed everyone makes their pick independently. This is kinda only true for solo queueing. It will be a bit different for premades. Currently, they really have a lot of power. If the premades decides they want to pick civ, then it is already guarenteed to be pick civ. That is instantly forced by the system. The premade will even have full control about this.

Even for random civ, they really have a big impact. If they all pick random civ, then there is already a 35% chance of playing random civ. Even if only 20% of the player base wants to play random civ, then already 59% of getting random civ.

Even if only 10% of the players base wants to play random civ. If a premade queued up and all will pick random civ, the probably of it being random civ will be already about 35% (assuming the other team are all solo queueing). Premades already have a huge benefit over solo queueing, but this is another benefit of premades.

So we found a few issues:

  1. Random vs pick civ is skewed towards pick civ by design.
  2. The majority has much more control over the outcomes compared to the minority.
  3. Pre mades has a huge impact in the outcome of random civ or pick civv.

I suggest the following change:
Change the rules about pick or random civ. Dont use majority rules to determine pick or random civ. Make it proces random, like a tail flip. If there are x players wanting pick civ, and there are n players in total then x / n it the probably of the game being pick civ and (n - x) / n is the probably of the game being random civ.

This will solve most of the above issues. The number of games with pick civ and random civ will be a better reflection of the preferences of the player base.

2

I don’t like civ pickers.

1 Like
3

Everyone has its own preference and i think the ranked ladder should be a reflection of the preference of each player. Not in favor of the the majority.

2 Likes
4

It’s simple fix no one should be forced play certain way unless it’s for tournaments even banning certain civs be fine.

Unless your in top elo this shouldn’t be in game. Anyone advocate for this is tyrant.

If only 5 out 43 only get picked then buff or nerfing should be looked at and not forced play a random civ for balance issues.

I quit every time I am forced to play random. So stop forcing people. If want play random fine but if you playing random. To throw off opponents is just dumb because people who play random play generic game anyways.

Now I would have blind bans where each player picks 4 civs rating favorit to least and get two bans each. Is much better choice then forcing random.

3 Likes
5

It’s funny there are lots of people here accepting Smurf, but against civ pick.

civ pick is totally fine, I pick different civs to learn after I go through their civs details.
There are tons of civs here now, and lots of people didnt buy all DLC.
There’s absolutely no right forcing players to player some civs they dont know or they dont like.

6 Likes
6

I like to pick civ but I must admit that it is an illusion that it is more convienient. In reality, with random civ, it is the best way to improve yourself with your favorite civ.

7

I have no idea how most of this is related to the suggestion.

You know that there is already a system in place deciding pick civ or random civ? I only suggest a change to the existing system. If you play ranked, you already knows it will be pick or random civ. That is already part of the game. I only want to modify how is decided if it is pick or random in a way so it reflects the preferences of the playerbase more.

You seems to think this is something new to the game, but that isnt the case. You can already end up with random civs. So there isnt really anything new to the game. You already have the option between pick civ or random civ.

Most of your arguments are only for having the option for pick civ or random civ. But that is already a passed station. It is already into the game, so it doesnt really apply to this suggestion at all.

This suggestion only change the way it is determined, so it is a better representation of the player base, instead of majority of the player base force their will on all others.

I havent seen many players accepting smurf. Personally i dont encounter them a lot, but if i do, i will always report them, so the devs can deal with them. I dont mind a stricter policy for banning smurfing. But I dont really see how smurfing is connected to this suggestion at all.

You also seems to forget that pick vs random civ is already into the game and part of the ranked ladder? So you can alreaddy end up with random civs?! So it seems the devs already think having random civ games is a good idea. Otherwise they didnt put it into the game.

8

I do now know that, just came back to the game after 1 to 2 years.
Well, what devs think random civ is a good idea doesnt really means it’s a good idea at all.
If they can really think properly on how to keep the multiplayer community healthy, the TG wont be a mess for these years.

Even I have played thousand of games before and right now I come back the game, there are many civs I am no familiar with its tech and the units they have. Forcing me to play random civ is just totally destroying how I enjoy the ranked game. I dont played single civ in ranked, instead, I perferred each time I have time to read their tech trees and picked a civ to play by mood.

We are playing the game, shouldnt be forced to do exams by some of the anti-civ pick players or dev’s desires.

2 Likes
9

balancing 43 different civs for 20 or so different maps really isn’t an option. you are always going to have outliers.

As someone who picks random (even if my opponent picks civ), that is not why people play random. People play random because they don’t want to play the meta all of the time. Some players might be fine scout rushing into knights every game, but a lot of other players want to explore different tactics.

The idea that a random player would play generically with any civ goes against why people like me pick random in the first place. those who pick and then hit the random button are just random players who don’t want to be a useless civ against a top tier one.