Sweden still has 1 of the highest win rates in the game, it’s just easy to play.
heavy infantry with ranged bonus against cavalry is a balance issue; that type of infantry is so effective against cavalry that it makes training cavalry prohibitive for the opponent, while the swedes have no additional problem using cavalry charges. So the only alternative to eliminate cannons defended by caroloeans are culverins. Also, since Caroleans can change their melee resistance to ranged resistance, Caroleans defeat most musketeers and are more resistant against light infantry. Because Caroleans are so effective against cavalry they shouldn’t defeat other musketers and they shouldn’t be more resilient against skirmishers.
My regular teammate (KillerKatze666) is 2k elo in teams and his main civ is sweden.
He often says that sweden is OP in teams, and that it’s like getting 300+ free elo.
The boy is also an excellent player and a great guy who knows how to use several very different civs such as Incas, Hausa, USA, Mex…
But their strongest main option is Sweden.
In 1vs1 it is not a weak civ either, I consider it tier A.
to be fair, lots of mid to higher but not op civs like sweden go super mode in teams
like malta, dutch, ports, sweden, india, france are all pretty solid but tricky in 1v1 due to inability to specialize all over
but in teams these civs are (im)famous for their power and abiltiies to finally take all the cards to maximize their civ specalties.
Also, ive noted long age2 civs like brits, sweden, india, malta are all top tier in 2v2s where FF’s just arent really smart in many matchups
so yeah i can see how sweden in teams can just bot caroleon and make houses and be very, very obnoxious XD
Yes, agree, all civs u named are good in teams, and the civs has a good age II are nice in 2v2.
The best civs in teams are the ones that can exploit the eco or militarily using cards that in 1v1 under pressure they could not send. With the safety and support of the team
Malta can obtain a good eco and nice xbow mass innage II. Or can go turtle for all team.
Dutch can get more fast the banks.
Portugal can get boom/ff.
Sweden fast torps and mass carols.
India boom + army.
France can get all cav cards for cuirs or all natuve cards for native strats.
Brittish can get boom houses.
Radical idea (and I’m not necessarily sold on it), but what if you increase Carolean hitpoints by like 120% and attack by like 80% and cost by 100%? Make them a 2 pop unit. Increase train time as well.
The increased space efficiency (ie Caroleans are half the physical size in game (because they are each basically two instead of one now)) is a double edged sword as it makes body blocking for cannons harder but basically allows more firepower to engage in melee, and arguably, but to a lesser extent ranged combat.
Ranged units having more attack is better than hp so it’s a nerf, at least if they get killed.
It would also fit a bit better historically because Sweden had a small strong military.
Each Caro would cost like 130f and 80c (maybe revert the plus 5f nerf to get 120f 80c)
This would also seem applicable here:
I’d be interested to know what people think as it’s an interesting idea that might or might not be good
too much nerf makes them unplayable. 5% loss from mercenary and melee attack negative on carolean vs skirm. Giant grenadier 3 pop. Come on man. All this crap in the PUP.
If you cant freakin beat them join them and play sweden yourself. 21
Lets get some Stats in. This is all 1v1 data, Only including games with 100 elo difference or less, and games lasting over 5 minutes.
Sweden is the 2nd most popular DE Civ with almost 19000 games since Jan 28 (USA is most popular DE with 24000 games)
In general there has been a slight decrease in there win rate. Patches occuring in week 7 and week 12. Play rate has been pretty steady. The slight decrease has been seen by most civs recently with less games been played overall.
They both win more and get played more in general at higher elos
For games 1100+ Sweden do well against Spain, and bad against Ports. But have a pretty dominate record over all with only 2 civs they lose to more than 50% of the time
Initially Sweden was doing really well at higher elos, with a lot more games then average been played at 1300+ but recently this has reduced more to what is the average. Note this graph cant say if its because less higher elo players are playing or if that players playing Sweden have dropped in elo
Imo the concept of swedish representation is broken by design. They’re supposed to have a greater access to military technologies compared to other civs, yet feature economic perks (torps) that make them powerful economically, aswell. Something’s gotta be nerfed.
Compare this to their historical enemies, the russians. A bad economy (baches of 3 vills are terrible early) with the weakest boom, coupled with a weak army (that essentially only allows for cossack cavalry raids) and weak artillery. Yet russia ended the swedish empire irl, and not by rushing them.
No one mentioned the artillery in age 2, age 4 artillery in age 3, come on. Cav sniping artillery is impossible because of carolean, then the only answer is ligjt infantry, then sweden is the only civ getting artillery in age 2 which destroys any carolean counters
And no one mentioned the free advanced arsenal? That allows sweden player upgrade their musk/cannons to better level than other civs, while others usually can’t because they need to waste a card on that, most of the time advanced arsenal is not sent until age 4 (no better card to send).
Carolean don’t actually do much damage and their multiplier vs heavy cavalry isn’t high either (not to mention that they all have range resistance), it’s only when their number get really high that their damage vs cav actually matters since hussars can close the distance and kill them.
I think there is a easy way to nerf the Swedes in a reasonable manner:
- Nerf the Carolean range to 10 (from 12). If that makes them too weak, buff their speed to 4.5 from 4.25.
- Nerf Snaplock Carolean range and LOS boost to 2 (from 3).
This way, in Age 2, Carolean can protect leather cannons, and still shoot cavalry to pieces. However, every ranged unit in the game, musketeers included, can kite (bump-and-scoot) them. This means that Carolean either have to charge (potentially into a trap), or they have to be bounded to their cannons. By Age 3, they can ship Snaplock to get their range back.
The real issue with the Carolean is that the devs are trying to do too much with them, as they reflect both the Gustavian reform (good ranged) and the Ga Pa tactics (good melee). If we want to have a more balanced (and historical) Sweden, the Carolean should never have more than 10 range, and the Pikes need to be a lot stronger.
Nerfing Caroleans that much would kill the civ. Easiest thing would probably be just nerf the base gather rate of Torps by another 5-10%.
I’d also be in favor of reverting the cost nerf on Caroleans. The problem with nerfing Caroleans is they are basically the only good infantry unit Swedes have. They have to beat musks because of the lack of Skirmishers
You might be able to get away with the nerf I suggested earlier in this thread, but that could cause a whole new set of problems.
Caroleans are already not amazing in age 2, it’s just the eco behind them that allows them to be spammed
They don’t beat musks at least they don’t until you get range resist on them, but by that time there is plenty of artillery flying around it doesn’t matter.
They beat musketeers in melee and after Snaplock at range. Before that I think they trade roughly even at range?
Nope musketeers do way more damage.
They do same amount of damage
Caroleans do 19 damage musketeers do 23, yes the caroleans have a slightly higher rate of fire it’s the initial bang that really matters for ranged attacks. Not to mention a lot of civs have cards that boost musketeer damage by 15% or more. caroleans only get 10%.
but they get the second shot in sooner, so they have an advantage there. first shots often are where the most overkill happens. I’d say caroleans are fundamentally broken by design and no tweak to cost or damage is ever going to actually fix the unit
I think every civ should just be buffed so that we have more stuff to complain about haha. Sure Sweden is strong but if you give other civs a bit of a push(buff) i’m sure they can go head to head better.
Assuming that this is in the 1v1 Supremacy. Just strengthen everyone until no one is weak.