Hi All,
I have a quick question: Accordingly to the link http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Reign_of_the_Hittites the Hittites campaign should have 5 missions. But if I check my profile campaign stats it says only 3 scenarions.
Which one is right? (I do not have access to my gaming machine… hence I am asking the question here 
)
Thanks
That is the old version, the classic campaign if you wish. In Definitive Edition the first two missions are not present, since they were mostly tutorials for the Demo at the time and now there’s already the egyptian campaign for that.
That’s a shame, those two missions were still fun and worth playing. Heck, as a kid I used to download the trial version just for that campaign
Thanks for the info. Hope to start playing this weekend 
I also used to play the campaign in the trial version all the time when i was a kid. To my dissapointment i now see that they have changed the old “Battle for kadesh” mission, witch for me was the highlight of that trial version. That old version of the mission is nowere in this new version of the game?I dont understand why they would take nostalgia like that away from the game. Lets be honoust, with the unit collision issues this game has, noone is ever gonna play it if it isnt for nostalgia.
I’m more disappointed by the fact that the two last two missions of the original campaign are no longer there. The two first missions were quite trivial and no needed as much.
@HighHopes84 said:
I also used to play the campaign in the trial version all the time when i was a kid. To my dissapointment i now see that they have changed the old “Battle for kadesh” mission, witch for me was the highlight of that trial version. That old version of the mission is nowere in this new version of the game?I dont understand why they would take nostalgia like that away from the game. Lets be honoust, with the unit collision issues this game has, noone is ever gonna play it if it isnt for nostalgia.
While I loved the old campaigns, I actually think the new versions are better. I think they really made the effort to make all the campaigns as historically accurate as possible.
They could include these 2 missions at least for the History texts.
@Totalste said:
@HighHopes84 said:
I also used to play the campaign in the trial version all the time when i was a kid. To my dissapointment i now see that they have changed the old “Battle for kadesh” mission, witch for me was the highlight of that trial version. That old version of the mission is nowere in this new version of the game?I dont understand why they would take nostalgia like that away from the game. Lets be honoust, with the unit collision issues this game has, noone is ever gonna play it if it isnt for nostalgia.While I loved the old campaigns, I actually think the new versions are better. I think they really made the effort to make all the campaigns as historically accurate as possible.
I enjoy the new scenarios a lot too, but I don’t see why they had to replace the old ones. It’s a very short campaign and they could easily have added two new missions to it instead of replacing the old ones.
sorry, accidental doublepost
Well I hope they will include in the future the possibility to play the classic campaigns too, as a separate thing connected to classic mode.
As the designer of the remastered Hittite campaign, I can share some background on the changes.
To clarify, this campaign holds a special place in my heart as it was my first introduction to Age of Empires back in 1997.
However, when we looked at remastering this campaign for the Definitive Edition, it became evident that Ensemble Studios mirrored existing scenarios to create the Hittite campaign. For example, “Fall of the Mitanni” is identical to “Citadel” from the Glory of Greece campaign; and “Battle of Kadesh” is similar in concept and layout, albeit with some very minor map differences, to “Lord of the Euphrates” from the Voices of Babylon campaign.
So where did that leave the original Hittite campaign? The first two scenarios were tutorials and the last two were recycles of existing scenarios from other campaigns. Because of this, we decided to use the opportunity to really modernize and improve the Hittite campaign, as well as give it a more historical basis, while retaining the same sense of wonder that players felt in the 90s when we were first transported to this ancient and exotic world.
@Filthydelphia said:
As the designer of the remastered Hittite campaign, I can share some background on the changes.
To clarify, this campaign holds a special place in my heart as it was my first introduction to Age of Empires back in 1997.
However, when we looked at remastering this campaign for the Definitive Edition, it became evident that Ensemble Studios mirrored existing scenarios to create the Hittite campaign. For example, “Fall of the Mitanni” is identical to “Citadel” from the Glory of Greece campaign; and “Battle of Kadesh” is similar in concept and layout, albeit with some very minor map differences, to “Lord of the Euphrates” from the Voices of Babylon campaign.
So where did that leave the original Hittite campaign? The first two scenarios were tutorials and the last two were recycles of existing scenarios from other campaigns. Because of this, we decided to use the opportunity to really modernize and improve the Hittite campaign, as well as give it a more historical basis, while retaining the same sense of wonder that players felt in the 90s when we were first transported to this ancient and exotic world.
Thanks for clearing it up, it makes sense now. But still, the new Battle of Kadesh is strange. You start out in a big city with good defenses. I just take all the soldiers I start with, and first attack the red player next to me. You can easily kill him with it. Then I just pass by the yellow towers and go straight to his city, and destroy some towers and the building I need to destroy. It has become easier now. Maybe remove the connection with the land of yellow? So there is a real river instead of a shallow river? So they have some time to build up.
@LordDraganta said:
@Filthydelphia said:
As the designer of the remastered Hittite campaign, I can share some background on the changes.
To clarify, this campaign holds a special place in my heart as it was my first introduction to Age of Empires back in 1997.
However, when we looked at remastering this campaign for the Definitive Edition, it became evident that Ensemble Studios mirrored existing scenarios to create the Hittite campaign. For example, “Fall of the Mitanni” is identical to “Citadel” from the Glory of Greece campaign; and “Battle of Kadesh” is similar in concept and layout, albeit with some very minor map differences, to “Lord of the Euphrates” from the Voices of Babylon campaign.
So where did that leave the original Hittite campaign? The first two scenarios were tutorials and the last two were recycles of existing scenarios from other campaigns. Because of this, we decided to use the opportunity to really modernize and improve the Hittite campaign, as well as give it a more historical basis, while retaining the same sense of wonder that players felt in the 90s when we were first transported to this ancient and exotic world.Thanks for clearing it up, it makes sense now. But still, the new Battle of Kadesh is strange. You start out in a big city with good defenses. I just take all the soldiers I start with, and first attack the red player next to me. You can easily kill him with it. Then I just pass by the yellow towers and go straight to his city, and destroy some towers and the building I need to destroy. It has become easier now. Maybe remove the connection with the land of yellow? So there is a real river instead of a shallow river? So they have some time to build up.
I agree that the new Battle of Kadesh is too easy. I think you should either have less units at the start or the enemy bases should be more fortified so that you can’t just rush them straight away. Though it’s also worth noting that the AI villagers currently bug out if there are shallows on the map, so this mission might become a bit more challenging once that is fixed.
Hi guys,
There are AI issues that cropped up after the campaigns were designed and playtested. We are working on a fix. I expect the gameplay to subsequently improve, but I will certainly be open to weighing recommendations from the community. The two of us who designed these remastered campaigns also are part of the team behind the AoE II HD DLCs and we always strive to listen to player feedback. I would ask that when the AI fix is patched, you play the scenarios again and let me know if you feel the same way.
Thanks for your help and your thoughts.
If you’re curious on why I made the changes I did, my intention was to reflect the hurried and frantic historical battle by giving the players strong starting positions rather than having to ahistorically build up slowly. The map more closely represents the actual site of the battle, with the shallow Orontes River playing a crucial role with chariots fighting and moving across the river. That is not to say the new map is 100% historically accurate, however, since I wanted to keep the scenario fun and fast-paced. For example, I shifted the position of the city of Kadesh and merged it with the location of the Hittite camp to make the gameplay a little more cohesive (controlling two camps, as Muwatalli did, with his reserve in the city, would be too challenging for novice players without being more fun).
@Filthydelphia said:
Hi guys,There are AI issues that cropped up after the campaigns were designed and playtested. We are working on a fix. I expect the gameplay to subsequently improve, but I will certainly be open to weighing recommendations from the community. The two of us who designed these remastered campaigns also are part of the team behind the AoE II HD DLCs and we always strive to listen to player feedback. I would ask that when the AI fix is patched, you play the scenarios again and let me know if you feel the same way.
Thanks for your help and your thoughts.
If you’re curious on why I made the changes I did, my intention was to reflect the hurried and frantic historical battle by giving the players strong starting positions rather than having to ahistorically build up slowly. The map more closely represents the actual site of the battle, with the shallow Orontes River playing a crucial role with chariots fighting and moving across the river. That is not to say the new map is 100% historically accurate, however, since I wanted to keep the scenario fun and fast-paced. For example, I shifted the position of the city of Kadesh and merged it with the location of the Hittite camp to make the gameplay a little more cohesive (controlling two camps, as Muwatalli did, with his reserve in the city, would be too challenging for novice players without being more fun).
I will give more detailed feedback on the new campaigns once the AI problems are fixed, but in the meanwhile I can tell you what makes (in my opinion) a good AoE1 scenario.
The most memorable missions from the original were the ones where you faced an opponent that initially seemed overwhelming and had to use clever and unconventional strategies to turn the tide and defeat the enemy.
One such mission was Tigris Valley from the Babylon campaign. In the original game, the limited resources on your starting island and starting in the stone age put you into a serious disadvantage and when I played it for the first time on easiest, I remember I ended up fighting triremes while I was still in tool age and only had scout ships. Was that a bit too harsh for a new player? Perhaps, but it forced me to think about strategy. I could not simply do what I would do on any random map, but I had to build towers along the coast to secure my base before I could attack the enemy. These hard missions were what kept me interested in the game, what kept me trying to get better.
Now, in the definitive edition you start in the bronze age and you have more resources in your base. Otherwise the map and objectives are basically the same, but I feel like these simple changes have destroyed everything that made this mission special to me. Playing on hardest, I was able to upgrade war galleys before the enemy and I was able to go on the offensive right away. Of course, I am much better at the game than I was back then, but the enemy never felt challenging at all. There was no sense of accomplishment in beating the mission and I did not have to think outside the box at any point. I was able to just do what I would do on any random water map and at that point I feel like the mission could just as well have been a random water map.
The original battle of Kadesh was also similar to some extent. You started with a weak army and with a technological disadvantage, and you had to spend some time on the defensive before you could even think about defeating the enemy. The new mission certainly matches better what the battle of Kadesh was historically and epic clashes between large armies are also part of AoE. Maybe giving the enemy an even larger starting army could be the better solution, perhaps forcing the player to hide behind his walls for some time like in the original mission.
@Filthydelphia well, @qweytr24 said pretty much everything on why people is so freakin nostalgic about the old campaigns. A small suggestion to think of: Maybe just add an extra GOODIE folder (like the secret AOE scenario on AOC) or something similar, on the AOE:DE main folder where people can extract the original campaigns and revive the nostalgia of classic scenarios as selectable “Custom Scenarios” on AOE:DE. I know that people can basically do that if they have the original AOE campaign files, but it would be cool to have it as an “easter egg” of AOE:DE. I can live without it, but it would be a way to solve the problem of people wanting to play the single player campaigns in the “purest” way possible.
Some of the original AOE campaigns were pretty challenging and even had it’s own style and “beauty” (although I remember about original Yamato and Babilonian Fixed Force maps being ultra hard, but still, they were enjoyable in a certain way).
I enjoyed the few new campaign that I played so far on DE, however, I will not play more campaign maps until the AI problem is fixed. The enemies are simply throwing away everything on you right in the first seconds (I liked that), but suddenly they will stop doing anything useful and will suicide vills and will poach random deers miles away from his TC/Storage Pit… Although the first greek map functioned almost good with me on Hardest, being an enjoyable experience (AI were even somewhat smart enough to fight between them), the second one was pathetic, with a nice scout rush by the beggining, followed by an absent AI on the rest of the game… I just steamrolled the whole enemy base later with no problem at all…
Yamato DE first and second mission seemed good and well thought, first Yamato mission is now way more interesting actually on all aspects (although the original taste of the original scenario is NOT there, where we got only a few units and some lame and blind healers scattered around against a established powerful city). Overall I like the new work made on campaigns, but for nostalgia reasons that impulsionate the hype of AOE:DE, we must have a practical way to revive the nostalgia of the ole’ 90’s campaigns.
I totally agree with the change in the campaigns. It would be repetitive to always have the same situation.
But I appreciate that they kept my favorite very faithfully
“opening moves”.
I’m not saying that the campaigns should have been kept identical to how they were in the original. I still have the old Rise of Rome installed and if I wanted to play the old missions, I could just go play them in the original game. I actually agree with most of the changes made to the campaigns, and Tigris Valley is just an example of a situation where I don’t agree with the changes. The changes there are not big enough to make the mission feel like a new mission, but are so big that they destroy the feeling the original had.
What I meant to emphasize with my previous post was that I like scenarios where you have to think about your strategy to be able to win. If all I wanted was to learn a single buildorder and then repeat it mechanically every game, I could just play the random maps. That’s why any missions where I don’t have to deviate from my default playstyle, missions where I don’t have to think, are boring to me.
Keeping all the missions exactly the same would actually have been a bad thing. In many of the missions that had not been changed much, I didn’t have to come up with new strategies, since the ones I had used in the original game worked perfectly fine. The second mission in the Hittite campaign was probably the one where I was having the most fun among all the missions in the new campaigns, simply because I did not have a pre-existing strategy for beating it. The new battle of Kadesh is fine too, it’s just a bit too easy right now.
I’ve played the original campaigns for countless hours. I can somewhat live with some very slight changes. But hopefully they haven’t changed the most EPIC campaign scenario in any RTS game (and I played soooo many) I’ve ever played.
I mean one where you start with a monk and had to recover an artifact through multiple dangers --lions, enemies, and the catapult part was very tricky. But that scenario holds a special place in my videogaming heart.