Then you have to ask yourself, why do they consider it to be so bad in tournaments that it should be banned there?
Because there is something wrong with it in the first place. So we might as well remove it for regular players and ladder as well.
When Riot make changes in the League Of Legends gameplay, they do it for everyone, not just for the LCS and tournaments.
That’s why a game like League Of Legends works so well in the long run. Because they are not afraid to make changes.
They didn’t make Definitive Edition so that people who played this game 20 years ago could be able to have the same exact gameplay as they did back then. DE is here to make improvements, not to stick to the old ways at all costs. If some things need to be removed to make the game more competitive, I would be glad that they do it for DE. Those who are attached to the old ways and want to play the game like they did 20 years ago still have the possibility to play on servers like Voobly.
It doesn’t make sense to me that tournaments need to have specific rules to forbid stuff that are possible to do in game. The better way is to make it not possible to do in game.
It does impact me and you. Unless you’re not watching any high level streams or tournaments?
Viewers are impacted by the quality of the game and the gameplay, not just the pro players playing it.
If boar laming impacts pro gameplay in a way that makes the games uninteresting for the viewers (as well as for the pro themselves, most of whoml voice their opinion against boar laming), then we are impacted.
Strategies needs to be low risk, low reward or high risk, high reward. So taking more risk can give you more reward, but if it failed you also can have more losses. That is for me the base of viable strategies.
If we have a look at boar laming, it is currently about low risk, high reward. That just needs to change. I dont think outcomes of tournaments needs to be decided by ‘who is the best lamer?’. If i watch pro players i dont want to watch ‘Who is the best lamer?’, i want to watch 'Who is the best player?
I dont really think we need to ban laming, but i do think we need to make it harder. Slow down the speed of the boars (i dont know how this will affect luring boars, since boars seems to be just a little bit faster then vills, making them slower than vills makes luring boars too easy), give them extra bonus damage against scouts / eagles. Makes them loose their aggro on the scout / eagles much more quickly (scout / eagles needs to be more in range of the boar), make blocking the boars for the defender more easily (like it was on voobly and probably HD too), …
Enough option to make it more high risk, high reward without straight out deleting this option from the game.
I think this would make luring boars harder. Currently you can pretty much shoot the boar and then when it’s aggro’d you can just click back to tc and look away for a little bit, then come back garrison vil etc.
If the boar is made too much slow theres a chance the vil could run out of its line of sight and it could go back, which would make boar luring more micro intensive for vils. Would have to be a balance between making laming harder and not making ordinary luring harder.
While this is a really good thinking, this still doesn’t make up for a good reason to remove boar laming
Because sheep/cow laming will have the same effect on one’s eco and is way easier to do so
Remove laming entirely? That would not be ideal at all
Does this have something to do with kotd (king of the desert, arabia with skin) custom map for some tournament years ago? i remember that 1 of the 4 starter sheeps was directly under your tc.
Idk if it was meant to reduce laming or decrease idle time - like in chinese start - but i remember this was welcomed by everyone. In fact, it was my favorite custom map.
Something I don’t’ know if many people have talked about, is how mechanically easy it is to do. We see pro level players being able to defend against the boar lame sometimes, but a lot of intermediate+ players (where people say this primarily occurs, I don’t play newer player games, so not sure about that level) don’t have all the required skills to defend against it, even if all the stars align to make it possible to defend against. But as for the one laming, all you need to do is a little micro back and forth and you have an advantage. I think this is something pretty similar in skill level as deer pushing, which basically anyone can do.I feel like we keep talking about pros doing this, but in the early game most have a lot of spare APM to do a quick boar steal, even at lower levels.
I guess it was to bypass the cases where the 4 sheep randomly spawn out of your vision, which puts you at a real disadvantage right from the start. It does still happen in DE btw, which sucks. Completely useless imbalance created because of a bad choice of randomization.
I think giving the 8 sheep directly close to the TC, with at least one in range to be converted right away, or directly under the TC, is a good idea for long term competitiveness.
There is nothing interesting or strategic about looking for the 4 extra sheep. It’s completely random. And often imbalanced. You can have your 4 extra sheep 10 km away from your TC, while you opponent find them all right away close to his TC.
Yes, I have seen many times people on stream, at the 1200-1400 ELO range, succesfully lame a boar while doing every other stuff that needs to be done in their base. You just have to practice it a lot. Once you have mastered it, it doesn’t seem to be that hard to do.
However at this ELO range, it’s not as impactful as it is in high ELO or pro level, because the player who lames a boar isn’t good enough to actually capitalize fully on that early food swing. Don’t misunderstand me, I think it does give a significant advantage still. But usually the games won’t be decided on that alone at this ELO, contrary to TOP level where that 700 food swing early will be capitalized into a huge advantage and potentially decide the fate of the game entirely. Every little detail counts at high elo.
For sure, I just feel sometimes we get caught up talking about pro level player balance, when most of us are basically playing a different game for how much better they are than us. I’ve played against them before, it just isn’t really comparable. But despite the skill difference, boar laming is easily exploitable for all elos with a little practice.
I think the general consensus in this topic is laming should not be removed but need to be harder. Couple of good suggestions were raised - scout take more damage/more hits, boar runs slower, easier to lost aggro vs scout… Hopefully devs will be able to implement one of them.
I agree that we just need to be make a bit harder. Something that DE added is the lower ping in game, which makes it way easier to micro the scout when lamming.
Maybe when the boar is hit twice again by another player’s it changes the aggro towards the new scout?
This would add some fun to lamming war.
Maybe players enjoy boar laming and sheep laming as part of the strategy of the game.
However while it may make good youtube content, if boar laming can tilt high level players to the point of not resigning when you’ve no tc’s and little resources left (eg 40 real time mins into the game) is it really worth keeping? (Maybe Capoch wasn’t tilted - it might not be fair to claim that if I don’t know that for sure, but then hiding your vils around the map… like the one building a market/university at 41:37? And they research fortified wall to wall that vil in…)
That and again the previous comments about pro players not really wanting it in some tournaments where you feel like you’d be at a disadvantage if you didn’t lame.
It seems like a fine window of opportunity though to steal another boar back, and maybe Capoch got unlucky taking hits from the tc trying to get sheep back (since now they probably can’t try to steal a boar)
Well, the reason why laming is so strong these days compared to Voobly/HD times is, there is less lag. And it is hard to block the boar that is getting lamed in DE compared to voobly. There is a reason why scout can’t kill deer. I feel like it should be done for boars as well. There are some maps where your opponent can lame your boar before you can scout it.
This provides the lamer with 340 * 3 = 1020 (~900-950 food considering decay) while the victim who got lamed is stuck with 340 food and will be forced to push deer (If the deer distance is far away, it is gg already). If the lamer follows it up with man at arms and towers, it will be so hard for the victim as he used his scout to push deer and doesn’t have the intel to defend the incoming attack. Then the game rolls down to trush offense and defense where the offender will have the advantage and the game will eventually end if played properly. You look what trush did, it made you push deer and deactivated your scout from gathering intel when it is needed.