What’s next? Block sheep laming? Prevent killing deers with militia? Stop crying pls, it is very easy to prevent a boar laming, you only has to send your scout to kill the enemy stealing.-
Pls stop asking things that make the game easier and booring.
If the only way for you to have fun on AoE is to go laming some boars, and otherwise the game becomes “easy and boring”, well, unlucky I guess.
Way to miss the point / twist it to your liking:
Point is, don’t take strategy freedom from players or you’ll turn this game into AOE3
Please tell this to the pros. That preventing laming is easy. They lame alle the time and no one can really stop them. They even say laming is maybe too strong and cant be stopped anymore.
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Again, you guys are trying to make “stealing a boar” appear like that Awesome super strategical maneuver that the game is depending on.
No it’s not. AoE II has so much more to offer than boar laming, and it wouldn’t suffer at all in terms of greatness, to have it removed. Boar laming is nothing special, strategy-wise. It’s just an exploit that gives a great early game advantage, with comparatively low risk and effort. If the majority still want to keep it nonetheless, I’m cool with that. But if you think AoE II absolutely needs boar laming to be a great game, well that’s pretty sad.
There are already things that can be considered “strategies” that have been removed or patched already. Just because something is a strategy, doesn’t mean we must keep it at all costs, even though it’s not good for game balance and competitiveness. That’s what patching a game is all about.
The question is not really to assess whether boar laming is a great strategy or not. The question is whether it is useful to keep it, even though it’s such an unbalanced and un-needed exploit that tournament organizers have to ban it from their tournaments.
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super strategic and game changing? no. but it does result in a nice sized swing especially in the early game, and that matters.
see, you just admitted yourself, it gives you an advantage. that means it had strategic value.
let me ask you this. is it a big advantage to put some archers on a woodline and drive your opponent off for a little bit?
is it a big advantage to raid with scouts to deny gold for a little bit?
no. but every little bit is a decision to be made and offers strategic value.
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We agreed already that Boar Laming can be defined as a strategy. As every other action you will do in a game of AoE II. Mining stone is a strategical move because it gives you stone and stone gives you castle.
But that’s not the point. The point is that boar laming is nothing special. It’s not a particulary interesting mechanics. And most of all, it is a strategy that unecessarily creates a very large imbalance in the game very early.
Let’s suppose they added this feature : every game, there is a sheep with 1500 food that spawns randomly somewhere on the map.
Would it be a strategy to go look for it directly with your scout? Yes, because it gives you 1500 food. Would it be an interesting strategy, something that makes Age Of Empire II greater? Not it wouldn’t, it would make AoE II worse. While still being a strategy.
See, just because something is a “strategy” doesn’t necessarily make it good and something we want in the game.
Would it be fair to argue for removing the 1500 food sheep with a patch? Yes it would be. Those who are in favour of keeping the 1500 food sheep can give arguments as to why they think it’s good to keep it in the game. But “Getting the 1500 food sheep is a strategy!” is not a strong argument.
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How about increasing the damage that a boar does to a scout? Perhaps even go as far as to give the boar the ability to kill a scout with one hit if provoked. This way, if you can attack an enemy boar with your scout and manage to lure it back to your base without getting hit, then great! If the boar hits your scout though, it’s dead, instantly. This would make boar stealing more tedious and require more time and attention from the player instead of banning it all together.
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Again, point is, don’t turn this game into AOE3 please.
If you enjoy limited strategies, AOE3 is the game for you.
Boar Laming is a strategy because it massively damages one’s eco in the Dark Age.
That’s why you should get the boar after having the first group sent to wood. You don’t keep an eye on the boars, it’s your fault.
Boar laming has been there since 20 years, no one had a huge problem with it.
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Age Of Empires II with Boar Laming = Great Strategical Game
Age Of Empires II without Boar Laming = boring game with very Limited Strategy = AoE III
Interesting point of view. I take notes.
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spanish will be so op. start with ranged unit can damage so easy to enemy. goth bonus can kill boar if the boar is on hill. no need chances.
I see you love to twist the points to your liking.
It’s not just the boar laming, any strategy that is taken from AOE2 limits the strategy and makes it closer to becoming AOE3. Tower rush, Boar Laming, Sheep Laming, etc, albeit so annoying, are parts of the game
Well to me it seems to be the opposite, you’re actually twisting it to you liking.
We’re not talking about “any strategy” here. But only boar laming. Specifically boar laming. Just boar laming.
So, by using your logic, we should never patch AoE and keep it exactly the same forever.
Yes, everytime we patch something or make balance changes, some form of strategy will be removed indirectly.
Example : recently they took away Bombard Cannon from the Khmer. Therefore all strategies from Khmer based around BBC were removed. By your reasoning, taking bombard cannon away from khmer, removes some strategies and therefore makes AoE 2 closer to becoming AoE3. Which is plainly absurd. If it was the right choice to remove BBC from Khmer, it doesn’t matter if Khmer BBC was a strategy or not.
That’s why I find the argument “we shoudln’t patch or remove X because X is a strategy!” to be very weak.
If we had followed this logic since the start of AoE, the game would have stayed the same as it was when it first came out.
There are strategies that are interesting and add to AoE’s greatness, some that are not particularly interesting and potentially hurt AoE’s greatness. Removing those doesn’t make AoE2 any closer to AoE3, or any less interesting, even if they are “strategies”.
Now, you can offer us some constructive arguments as to why you think Boar laming is a great strategy that is needed in the game. “It is a strategy” is not enough as an argument.
Let’s keep it constructive, every opinion matters as long as it’s fortified with constructive arguments.
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I’m talking about General strategy, not civ Strategy.
One civ might be great with tower rush in one patch, then people realize it will be too strong, then the tower rush strat is either made very situational or no efficent at all.
Khmer BBC goes to the category of removed.
But the argument it was there for 20 years and no one had a huge issue with it is strong.
That is why I said you twist the point to your liking. Because I already said it is annoying
Boar laming isn’t a “great strategy”, it is a strategy that does exist in the game and most people are fine with it being here,
Which part of what I said wasn’t?
I said before, and I say again, most people are fine with this being here, even though it is annoying
It can damage your eco a lot, but it being there makes you have a chance against a better player than you.
Which part of Boar Laming does that?
Huh, I remember you agreed they are strategies, now I see the sarcastic quote…
Also, I think what @SzYpD said is the best way to predict the next moves:
I don’t really remember any major thing to be removed from AOC in HD and later expansions. They were added, sure, but not removed.
It is easy to counter is better then?
How about the fact that most people are fine with it’s existence?
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Finally, we get to the real heart of the subject.
My argument, that I already talk about in the opening post if you read it, is that Boar Laming hurts AoE’s gameplay because it un-necessarily creates a very large imbalance (700 food difference), very early in the game. While it might not be gamebreaker at lower ELOs and lower level of play, it is completely gamebreaker and very impactful at higher ELOs. Good players will capitalize on this to the point where the sole act of laming a boar actually won them the game.
From a strategical point of view, it’s not a good thing for the game, as it makes for fast and imbalanced boring game that don’t really show the true skills of the 2 players facing each other.
Combined with the gamebreaking consequences mentioned above, it is something that is hard to prevent, and is obtained with a low risk and a not-so-hard to master, technical maneuver/exploit.
You say it is very easy to prevent/counter. Well, I guess pro players are actually noobs then, since they still suffer from boar laming and still want to have it banned from important tournaments.
Of course, if we’re talking about Low ELO here, I agree that Boar Laming isn’t impactful and there isn’t really any issue with boar laming until a certain ELO, even though it can still be “annoying” even at lower ELOs. But when developpers patch a game, they often have the competitive gaemplay in mind. If they want to hold any kind of value in e-sport, they usually have to look at top level gameplay as a reference, to know what to balance and what to patch. The reference is Pro/high ELO gameplay, not low ELO gameplay.
If you look at League Of Legends for example. Do you think they make balance changes based on what happens in Silver/Gold solo queue? Or based on what happens in LCS and World championships?
I beg to differ. I think most people do not care about whether boar laming is removed or not from the game. For the rest, some are fine with it being removed, some are against it. Each party should give constructive arguments, then the developpers decide which arguments are the most solid.
On top of it, most pro players agree it should be banned from big tournaments, and some tournaments have already banned it successfully in the past.
Well then let the pros take it to the devs if they still think its a problem. they have more means and say than us anyway. I don’t see why we should bother with this
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Pro players be like
“uuugh ban boar laming from the tournament, or it will be decided in 5 minutes!”
also pro players
“uuugh its fine to keep it in the game, you must learn to adapt!”
#INoPig
/s
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Boar offers 340 food. How is that equal to 700 (and if you mean laming both boars, you are already a legend to have them both lost)?
Tournaments, not game itself. Tournaments are played for money, makes sense.
I said easy because counter laming is a viable option. And on the level of MBL, well that guy is already a legend at boar laming.
Which then, since it doesn’t impact me and you, let the pros decide their own issues.
Because tournaments are played for a prize. Obviously when money is on board, you think otherwise.
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Rough math/easy math. Stealing a boar takes 340 food from opponent and gives to you. For ease of math judt call it a 700 food swing
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