Remove Gurjaras berries? Poll

Since the gurjaras are now getting super mills to generate an insane amount of food with their sheep inside them. I think it’s only fair to remove the berries they get under their Town Center. What do you think? Early game, this might force them to sacrifice a sheep, find berries and place a mill, hunt deer/boar, and fish shore fish.

  • Remove the berries under the town center.
  • Keep the berries under the town center.

0 voters

Maybe they could remove 1 bush and keep the other one and see the impact. Remove both in one go seem like a hard change for their early game, and i think It’s kinda cool to have a different start to spice up dark age


Having farm mills (don’t need reseed) is broken.

With that said, the Frank need to lose their berry bonus too. Would make it more fair.

You can’t tell nor judge for now. We need to wait until the new patch shows up, then wait another 2 or 3 months to test what their winrate would be after the upcoming nerfs for them.

my man… seriously, you think a 10% nerf on bonus damage, and a nerf to shiv, along with a buff to sheep is enough?? :smile:

wait 2 to 3 months to test, then another 3 months to work out a change, and then put it in the next patch, so like 9 months time gurj will finally get a nerf, that people thought was obvious from like day 3


People really overestimate the camel bonus damage. In the end it is a camel bonus damage that works only for 1 type for units since camels in the end are counter units.

The problem is not with the camel 50% more damage or the upcoming 40%, it is more about how the civ can deal with 2 types of units from the same buildings and both of their units are cheap with good eco behind. I don’t see the 50% more damage from camels problematic more than the cheap Shivras and more than how they have camel scout in feudal that can be massed while going up to castle and have good numbers of army suddenly in addition to the cheap Shivras with their low creating time and have a great UU that can counter Gurjaras counters, it is like how Franks have axe thrower who counter Franks knights counters too with cheap castles and good eco behind.

Many greetings

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They neutralize the main unit line for half of the civs through that bonus damage alone, even if they didn’t have camel scout and good eco behind it. It’s simply too much raw damage.

Also axe throwers aren’t that great of a unit, they have low DPS and low range and need a UT to become more usable but still aren’t that great. There’s no wonder hera rates them quite low, they’re way better on paper than in reality. At least Gbeto have good DPS and are worth microing but they’re nowhere near chakrams in power. Massed chakrams power ceiling is nearing that of mangudai and camel archers, it’s silly some civs can’t do anything about them.

A reduction to 33% bonus damage is good enough IMO. Chakrams pass through damage needs a second look and probably an artificial damage maximum is in order.


This is a good take. SR counter archers excellently and camels counter scouts & knights. That i think counters most of the opening moves. Plus camels can be massed by them in feudal. Then they get bonus. This is so overwhelmingly a cav killer and SR by themselves are a Archer killer.

I think let gurjaras loose camel scouts in feudal if they are not able to mass them in feudal then maybe SR will be countered with some knights. And feudal archers can kill off any new camels that are now getting created in castle age. This might balance their power.

I still think the current PUP is a mistake, and it’s instead just intended to have first sheeps give more food and the rest give less, but they somehow made it that each mill resets the counter.

If it’s intended as it is now, then I’d remove one bush. If not, keep both.


oe push is necessary, but for not experienced players it’s probably hard to get a decent start with only 1 bush.

This poll is completely neglecting reality. IF I would change something about the gurjara eco it would be the food income rate in dark age.


removing the berries would increase the difference between situations with lots of sheep (or sheep sling) and normal 1v1 maps even more. (Which would be bad)


Either remove the berries or change the numbers such that 2 mills with 4 sheep in each provided 28-32/min instead of 38/min

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And proof of it was how long it took good players to even work out how to maximize the sheep bonus.

We don’t need yet another chinese civ that excels (to the point it’s borderline OP) at one elo and does poorly at another due to the difficult start

Tuning the sheep numbers both nerfs the civ as whole, as well as keeps it more manageable to leverage at lower elos, or even in cases where it’s too tough to push deer.

Yeah also think(hope) so

But won’t be the first time they do something that didn’t make sense

It’s not just camels, It’s every mounted unit, including Elephant rams for example.

That sayd, gurjaras are obviously broken with a skyrocketing winrate, and what they are receiving is most definitely not a nerf but a tweak, since all the nerfs are getting compensation (-10% bonus but better mill bonus; shriv rider Shield recharge nerf but cheaper elité upgrade) and in the overall balance the civ will obviously remain as good as it is now

They quite obviously need more direct nerfs with no compensation whatsoever. Otherwise we are basically aknowledging that a civ can have 65% winrates and be fine, which would be wrong for the game


Another thing that could be done is the additional damage could be a fixed number like +2 / +3. And it does not count as bonus so not negating armour. So camels ele rams won’t be so oppressive. Or stagger the bonus 20% castle age and 40% imperial or 15 castle and 30 imperial.