Yes, but China is for political reasons and we know that FE doesn’t want to get involved in political issues, but look at AoE 3 DE… adapting AoE 1 to AoE 2 is practically putting Ctrl C+Ctrl V, except maybe rescaling the buildings of AoE 1 to be like those of AoE 2…
Too soon! It’ll be another couple of hundred years or so before this is a good idea. Even AoE3’s time period is uncomfortably recent, hence, as you say:
Yes, but Empire Earth and RoN did it and nobody complained about it… besides, it’s not like we can live in the Middle Ages all our lives… we are left with Antiquity, the Early Modern Age and the 20th century and nothing else…(at most the future as EE1 did with the Russian and Chinese campaign)…
He has some interesting ideas, for sure. Although you don’t need to go beyond this forum to find a lot of creative civ designs. Apparently he just made a concept for a Purépecha civ, but a lot of the bonuses were pretty derivative and/or gimmicky, where he has stuff like “Steal X amount of opponents res on Age up,” dodge shields and de-aggro for trade carts, and a TB that nerfs enemy production buildings. I agree that the viable design space is larger than a lot of people think, although, where a lot of the “low-hanging fruit” bonuses have been used, you may have to go further afield in search of new bonuses. Which can become a constraint when some people already think that existing features (Shrivamsha mechanic, FlemRev) “don’t feel like AoE2.” The one area where I’ll give massive props to Robby is that he actually puts in the work to make a solid presentation that helps bring his civs to life. I’m attempting something similar where I at least make some playable concepts or campaigns for some of my designs.
Ultimately though, the biggest constraint by far isn’t “number of possible bonuses,” but time. Each of us will get much more enjoyment and use out of preferred new civs if they’re added sooner rather than later. And pushing “Rome” and AoE1 stuff to the front of the line represents a delay of probably ~1 year on getting other civs which IMO should have been a higher priority. 15 years ago, something like “AoE1 with AoE2 mechanics/triggers, etc” would have blown my mind, but at this point, I’d struggle to rekindle any interest as I’ve long since moved on from AoE1.
All the more reason to add new civs to these areas instead of Rome. From the perspective of scenario/campaign creation, there are already more civs and Editor resources to represent Rome and the peoples they interacted with in the early Medieval period (and even late antiquity) than anywhere else, with Centurions, Legionaries, and several Roman buildings and objects in the Editor.
Whereas if you want to make any kind of New World campaign, you’re stuck with 1 architecture set, eagle warriors, a few UUs, and basically no other relevant objects or eye candy (IIRC the only thing is the “Old Stone Head” from AoC. This is one of several reasons for which the existing Aztec and Inca campaigns are pretty boring - there’s not just a lot to work with, even if they were better designed. Similar case with representing West and South/Central Africa.
5 Likes
I only vaguely remember these games (primarily as lazy attempts to cash in on AoE’s success), so I had to look them up. Funnily enough, according to the Rise of Nations wiki:
Germany used to have an old formable called the German Reich. However, due to the fact it was an indirect reference to #### Germany, it was removed to avoid moderation action from Roblox as it violates the Terrorism and Violent Extremism Content rule in the Roblox’s Terms of Service.
I guess the forum will censor some of that, but you probably get the point.
Maybe it’s just me, but there’s something quite disturbing about some things that a 20th century AoE game would have to include to be credible. (And actually, from the quote above, evidently it’s not just me.)
Not sure what you’re getting at here. Yes, if we divide all of human history into four periods and then omit one of them, we’re left with three periods. The first one is literally thousands of years though. Also, the early middle ages aren’t depicted much in AoE2 or AoE4.
2 Likes
There has already been a CoD game about WWI and Total War game about Napoleon. Only difference between genocide by Tamerlane or Genghis Khan and modern regimes is the passage of time.
Also you don’t have to include everything. There has been a game about war on the eastern front (Company of Heroes 2) where you can play campaign for both sides, CoH 3 just came out this year. We definitely don’t have to wait “for a few hundred years”, to get somewhat censored version of the events.
edit: Just to fix my mistake, you had only a Russian campaign in CoH 2. But in CoH 3, there is a story campaign for Afrika Corps, so times have definitely changed.
2 Likes
Yeah but European civs before 1000 ad means mostly barbaric ones so would you like to have vandals, Lombards, Huns, goths, Sassanids, Saxons and not Romans? Would you prefer for a vandal campaign to have to sack another time Rome with Italians or byzantines as enemy civs and just scenario only units like Centurions to give it credibility? Why not just have damn late Romans (the main enemy or protagonist of an early dark age dlc) and then everything else is only a smooth consequence (hopefully) ahah it’s not because they’re trendy or mainstream (even because again this is late Rome, not ancient, arguably only the latter it’s the trendy one) but just because well they’re Romans, how can you not have them if you have Huns at this point of aoe2?
The only game I knew to be specifically focused on this era is total war Attila even if I never played it lol don’t know why late antiquity is so forgotten in games, I find it extremely fascinating even if quite grim and not as glorious/empowering as either ancient Rome or Joan of Arc.
About Robby well, his last built is maybe one of my least liked but he made so much good civs and came up with such creative and historically grounded bonuses (like you acknowledged). I love most of his civs starting from Novgorodians, Moravians, Polynesians, Zapotecs, Egyptians, jurchens, swiss etc.
Like you as I said I’m a bit hesitant when he goes too much into gimmicky (I’d give pierce armour to trade carts rather than dodge shields but me I’m boring lol while his idea is more in line with aoe2 taste for wacky ideas like throwing axemen), not because I’m afraid of deluding people but rather because I want civs to play smoother and do not feeling like they all play at a different game or funky for the sake of it. I think you can be unique while containing yourself, I actually think that’s what really makes something profoundly unique. But that’s my real life philosophy too: it’s not being full of showy tattoos that make you stand out but being different inside, in a smart and subtle, more mature way, don’t know if you get me.
Still I love what he’s doing and somewhere you need to start from anyway. I would be not as good as coming up with bonuses that are so specific to a civ identity, I’m better at storytelling than with mechanics. That’s why I do campaigns and not civ theorycrafts lol but I tried my occasional two or three civs (I did Romans in collaboration with him even if mines were slightly different and next week another one is coming).
What civs did you theorycraft? I’m always very curious about stuff like this ahah
1 Like
Hm not sure if you can call a game that was made by one of AoE’s lead designers as a lazy attempt to grab cash. EE had a lot of interesting ideas (so did RoN).
6 Likes
-
That’s a false dilemma, the desvs were not faced with the choice to either do a dlc about China or merge the two games, I could give you a dozen other options in less than a minute. RoR clearly wasn’t the easiest thing.
-
The Chinese government’s severity on video games is overestimated, Jurchen, Tanguts, Khitans and Dali/Nanzhao could probably be implemented without much of a problem. Tibetans and Uyghurs may be the excetion because of modern day reasons, but some Chinese players on the forum have stated in the past even those could be okay as long as they use their Medieval names rather than the modern ones.
-
Considering the Chinese were the bad guys in the Le Loi campaign developped by the same team, I’d say the dev’s reluctance to take some risks with the CCP is also overestimated.
-
If they manage to avoid censorship, a Chinese DLC would sell like crazy in China and possibly attract new player, especially if we finally have a campaign for the og Chinese civ.
I’m not saying the devs SHOULD necessarily do a Chinese dlc, even though I would love it especially with the Jurchens in it, just that it is a definitive possibility and the devs didn’t chose the easiest possible solution.
10 Likes
Empire Earth was very very ambitious. Not only did it have 14 (15 with the expansion) Ages compared tot the 4 AoE has, it also added a lot of different new mechanics to the game.
Moral system, catastrophes (kinda like AoM god powers), a 5th resource (Iron), buildings with influence areas (Temples prevent catastrophes, Universities block conversions, Hospitals and Docks heal), air combat, upgrading your “Town Centre” by populating it with villagers, artillery with a longer range then line of sight that you need to scout for, simple stealth system, special units that can traverse forests, custom civilisations and a lot of other things.
No other game has come anywhere close to Empire Earth (not even the 2 successors) in over 20 years.
That’s kinda sad.
3 Likes
Yeah, the main problem I had with EE was the civs being way too similar for my taste. However, there are quite a few things in it which I wish could be in the AoE games.
Ok, I can garantee that your opinion about these games is worthless. Both of them are radically different from AoE2 and calling them “lazy cash-ins” is an insult to these classics.
3 Likes
I wish AoE2 could have a create a civilization mode like EE. I’d even buy it.
Worth pointing out that (as far as I know) neither Crusader Kings nor Europa Universalist series are banned in China but Hearts of Iron is. I think is relatively safe to say the Chinese government only cares about 20th depictions and not the historical kingdoms.
6 Likes
We can’t even call civilizations a thing on EE, it was a idea poorly executed but the crown points by doing objectives in campaign was fairly good.
Anyway, i wonder why on original aoe1 campaigns, persian AI never ever built farms… if hunt or forage ends, they will starve right after
1 Like
Well, Empire Earth 1 was made by Tony Goodman, one of the fathers of AoE 1, so consider it “sister series”…
Yes, that’s why I think those games should focus on the early middle ages (476-1066) and not ##### for other historical periods, except for new games…
In fact it is a Battlefield… and one of the most loved…
In fact, it’s a Russian campaign, then challenge missions with the Germans and finally a dynamic campaign with the Americans in the Ardennes…then with CoH 3 it’s the whole North African and Italian front and CoH 4 will be in the Pacific…
Ok, I agree with that then…
You missed space combat too xd…
Yes, later with the EE saga they did the same as AoE saga, with EE3 they made asymmetric civs based on the region in which each one is set (Western, Middle East and Far East)… the western ranges from Greek lancers, crusaders, colonial hussars , modern tanks and robots, the one from the Middle East goes from camel riders to terrorist and post-nuclear units and the one from the Far East goes from chu ko nus to futuristic tanks…
I know…
That was just glorified water combat.
That is true, but they put it very well, that is, space combat is still like fighting in the sea, there are fleets and admirals in space operas for a reason…
Why not?
Use the Romans we already have and enable Legionaries and Centurions in Barracks and Stables. Change the name of the civ from Byzantines with Romans. All of this can be made with triggers.
1 Enable unit: Legionaries
2 Change train location of legionaries
3 Enable unit: Centurions
4 Change train location of centurions
5 Change civ name
Which is what I did for these two scenarios which I posted a little upwards
Edit: I even made a python script with AoE2Parser that does this automatically for me.
1 Like
So theres not going to be a playable Rome Civilization on AOE2? Just a remaster of the aoe1?