Its so stupid,how siege civs are supposed now to counter hca+hussar combo now ? Scorpions finally getting play they deserve and now they feel even worse then ever.
Have you done testing to see to see if substantial difference? Romans, Celts and Khmer, one of the best scorpions won’t be affected very much with this change at all I think.
Do a simple test, how effective 10 scorpions would be. Unlike an archer, they do pass through damage, are more tanky and don’t do friendly fire like onagers.
They are affected. With 15 max damage they deal 9 damage to the main target with 6 pierce armor with a huge reload time. Its like 20% to ~40% dps nerf depending how many units you hit. It is a big nerf
In 1v1 Arabia, it should not matter that much.
In 4v4 team games, perhaps. But even then, it’s all about combined arms to cover a civ’s weakness from an ally.
Ok, so you discovered the main reason of why were nerfed in that aspect, a huge mass of Scorpions was close to uncounterable as they were killing units that weren’t supposed to be countered by Scorpions so easily (Namely Paladins) now that Ballistics affects them.
With this change Scorpions remain the same vs Elephants and Infantry, but you just can’t throw a huge mass of those vs Cavalry and win so easily anymore, you can still do Halb+Scorpion army if that is a problem.
2 Likes
I can see the reason why it was nerfed. But in 1v1 games big mass of scorpion was never a problem, because it never really happens unless you already winning. Now its not worth investing into them on arabia at all
1v1s never a problem? 11 I mean check some pro games at 2k in tournaments, sometimes they could win by simply massing a huge ball of scorpions (especially Khmer, which hasn’t been nerfed enough as they still keep that +1 range for free as Team bonus).
Indeed, Khmer mass scorpion was frankly insane.
Let’s look at some scorpion focus factions. Celts (well siege as well) move even faster, allowing them to be more aggressive with infantry. Militia cost has gone down for the Romans tied in with the legionary.
Chinese have new tools at their at their disposal with fire lancers and rocket carts.
Khmer, didn’t really receive anything but they should be largely unaffected.
should be 11, as I said, the free range is still a problem vs civs that lack SE, for instance Armenians are pretty much hopeless vs Khmer in Imperial because their onagers are outranged.
Ok, but massing huge ball of scorpions is not “simple” as other late game options on arabia. Im ok with those civs having it as win condition. But what about weaker siege civs ? How Bulgarians are supposed to stop Tatars/magyars/turks now ?Burmese ? Slavs ?
Generally the game is about combined arms. The problem with old scorpions is they almost countered pretty much everything in certain situations.
Aside from a few exceptions.
I mean I’m talking on other close-semi closed maps (both 1v1 and TGs) where it isn’t hard to mass Scorpions.
As for how Bulgarians will do, guess what, Cavalry Archers were nerfed by training time too, so it gives a chance for players to do damage before a large group comes and then it becomes imposible to stop.
Ah, yes. 3 second nerf equal to the third of the unit damage getting cut. Seems fair. Its not like game had CA meta for like 2 years now
I’ve had games where it happened (often when Romans were one of the civs, but not exclusively). I’ve been on both sides of massed scorpions: I’ve won with it, lost with it, won against it, and lost against it. It’s not the most common thing, but if you can get there, it’s strong. I think a mass of scorpions is still going to be pretty strong, but won’t be quite as dominant against enemy cavalry. Being weaker against archers isn’t ideal, but I think scorpions will still be effective against them.
I think the end result is that it will take a larger mass before scorpions are a game-ending threat that wipes anything within range. But scorpions will still be able to get to that mass.
To prove my point. I simulated semi-perfect condition for scorpions. 18 scorpions vs 18 Turk HCA(Not the best but decent). On paper scorpions should shred them easily,but its other way around now. HCA now BEAT Scorpion 1vs1 and then scale pretty good for a very long time. And we are not even taking into consideration hussars that could harass scorpion or tank or dodge their bolts.
And now pre-nerf scorpions, that trades against HCA pretty good
You all realize how ridiculous this is ? From being soft counter to the unit ,to always always losing, unless hca player is not careful or you somehow mass 30+ of this things
Nah, forget it. Even at 30 units, they still lose. Its so over for this unit
Just go CA skirm hussar yourself as Bulgarians, halb ram onager as slavs and UU for Burmese
How worse Bulgarians CA and Skirms supposed to counter top tier HCA+Hussar ? Slav combo could work, but you need somehow to upgrade 3 unit lines that still loses HCA+Hussar in a long run. And Arambai straight up bad against HCA