Rework cataphracts anti-Cav armor

Maybe because is their intendeed purpose lol? I mean is like complaining about Plumed Archers only doing like 2 damage to Elite Huskarls XD.
And Incas have arbalest with full upgrades to deal with cataphracts (which only need 30 shots to die).

Ideally each civs should have an answer to everything while also having an unique identity. Bohemians,
Burmese, Vietnamese, and Turks all have unique answers to archers but none of them should have an unfair dis/advantage against archer civs. and while impossible to have 39 civilization who are equally balanced on any matchup, but it is worthwhile to try. And the changes that they made to Turks and Burmese shows that they’re committed to balancing civs without sacrifice their identity.

Only buff cataphracts need is reducing thier cost a little bit and making either elite or logistica slightly cheaper.

Every civ has answers to cataphracts though.

Not Op in general they are very expensive to upgrade but they Hard counter certain units that otherwise counter cavalry.

Which is what they are supposed to do. They are anti anti cavalry unit.
In return they are very bad against archers and dont do well against heavy cavalry either.

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Worse then that even. Sicilian knights are good against archers, have conversion resistance, and are far easier to mass.

Halberdier deal 21 damage to Cataphracts however Cataphracts can still Clear out halbs, however these engagements can costly in the long run since Halbs are a Trash unit. I don’t recommend halbs vs Cataphracts normally, but civs with bonus like Goths, Bohemians, Japanese, or Sicilians can justify making halbs, overall this is a reasonable balance match up. What do you think the correct amount of damage for a Kamayuks should be? Is it 7?

It’s situational against Cataphracts can destroy units Teutonic knights while Sicilians Cavaliers get destroyed also don’t underestimate trample damage if Cataphracts can be devasting if they manage to get close to archer.

Halbs might win cost effectively but youre gonns eat up so much supply using them its just not worth it. Ive seen catas eat even japanese halbs.

Do you complain about how bad archers fair against elite huskarls?
Do you complain aviut how bad skidms are vs heavy cavalry?

Are you seriously suggesting that That 10 PA and +10 BD is perfectly balance and Goths late game is fine? Goths are the most Unbalanced civ in the game they win 82% percent of game that go past 40 minutes at 1650+ elo ? Skirms are meant to be bad against Knights. but I would Complain if an Archer UU ignored PA hard countered Skirms, EW, Seige, but not huskarl because they are a garbage unit.

Also. I dont know wjy youre bringing tk into this. If as Byzantines my opponent wrnt tk, i woildnt go catas against them period. Arbs would be a much better answer

Ahh. Still telying on aoestats huh? Outdated data.
Not only that but goths are pretty bad before they get to flood time. And so bad at the pro level they rarely see tourney use

Just like catas are meant to be good against cavalry counters.

Fair enough Teutons due hav +2MA Paladins so that would be a bad move. But my point is that Cataphracts excel against unit where Sicilian Cavalier struggle.

Yeah? And sicilian cavaliers are good against archers, monks and even hold up better against most heavy cavalry.

This isnt why id go arbs. Heck id probably transition out of arbs into hca

H

That my point Goths are terrible imbalanced they have lousy eco and bonuses that are largely irrelevant until Imperial but it is huskarl spam that allows them to be terrible op in Imperial age.

Why not +2MA Paladins is a pretty good reason not to go Cataphracts

Because first of all paladin is largely a non entity in 1v1. If your opponent can afford paladin and etk youce done something wrong.
And second of all, teutons units are slow, and can be esdily kited. Hca, even Byzantines hca, would pretty much wreck them

And thus the point. If you let them get that far yiuve done something wrong.

Archer don’t counter paladins while lacking husbandry does hurt them in this matchup, they still take 60 arrows to take down also if the game got late enough that you could afford Cataphracts then they can probably afford paladin.

While you should never let Goths get to imps it does still happen even at the pro level.

Not really. Remember, Byzantines rely heavily on cheaper counter units. They spend less on their army and rely on favorable trades. That said. Like i said. I woildnt be considering cataphracts against teutons tp begin with. Period. Id start wuty Xbow pike and move to either arb halb or just go to hca

True. But the goal is to makw sure rhey get there behind you. Point is you make sure thwir economy is inferior and win that way. Keep them on the back foot

Cataphracts are fine, Byzantines in general are one of the most well-designed civs in the game with clear tech tree gaps but also good strengths. Notably lack of eco bonus in early game, lack of Bloodlines mid-game and lack of a few key techs (Siege Engineers, Blast Furnace
) in the late game.

A Byzantines player can never outboom you, they can only outplay you and I think that’s good civ design, far more interesting than rolling Burgundians on Runestones, walling off early on and booming on 5 TCs like no tomorrow.

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