Roman balance ideas

Just my 2 cents on how I think the romans should be balanced to be a civ in line with the rest of the roster. Post your ideas and opinions below.

Civ bonus:

  • Villagers gather, build, and repair 5% faster
  • Careening has 4x the effect (+ 20 carry capacity on transport ships and +4 pierce armor on ships
  • Blacksmith armor upgrades provide double effect
  • Scorpions cost -25% gold and benefit from Ballistics


  • Ballistas - Scorpion and Galley-line fire 33% faster
  • Comitatenses - Militia-line, Knight-line, and Centurions train 50% faster.

Tech-tree changes:

  • Blast Forging
  • Bloodlines
  • Chemistry
  • Ring archer armor
  • Chain barding armor
  • Plate barding armor

unit changes:


  • Now an infantry unit:
    Cost: 55F 60G
    HP: 90(110)
    Attack: 13(15)
    MA: 2(3)
    PA: 3(3)
    Movement speed: 0.9
    Attack Rate: 2.2
    (Threated as a monk in formations → always in the back)

New unique upgrade:
Clibanarius (Upgrades from Cavalier for 600 F 600G)
HP: 150
Attack: 13
MA: 2
PA: 5
Movement Speed: 1.35
Attack rate: 1.8

I brought down their naval bonusses to bring them from a top-tier possibly the best navy in game to just an average navy, where their bonusses just cover to some degree or another their missing techs.
Their Galleons will have -2 attack, - 1Range and -15% movement speed compared to generic, but fire 33% faster and have +3 PA. However they powerspike hard in Castle and drop off significantly in imperial.
In fact a powerspike in castle and a less stellar Imperial age is the general theme I’m going for here, reflecting their peak in ancient times and steady decline from there.

Also I’d take away the charging attack, as it seems like a gimmick just for the sake of it. Not sure why they should have it. Also I’d take away blast furnace and make the centurion infantry, not only for historical reasons, but also as a response to SOTLs latest vid demostrating, that both Legionaires and Centurions are cost effective or even better units compared to their generic counterparts even without the aura effect, so I think you should have to use the aura to relly trade favorably, especially against other infantry civs.
I think Legionaires by themself shouldn’t be able to cost-effectively beat Japanese or Aztec champs for example. No charge and no blast furnace ensures that is the case.
Also I toned down the Scorpion discount, as well as took chemistry away, to make their scorpions not as exessively powerful compared to others.
To double down on their CA peak I extended their blacksmith bonus to all armor techs, not only because I quite nerfed them on other fronts, but also to save them some resources in their now neutered imperial age.
I also gave them a new Knight upgrade, especially to reduce their archery vulnerability, especially as their skirmishers are now quite horrible.

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Those knights would be ridiculiusly OP in castle age

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I think just those 6 tech lost is already good enough to put the civ as thrash tier. Or every other civ in fact.

Just realized the civ doesnt have chain barding. Yeah I kinda doubt the knights would see any use without bloodlines, and it just seems way too complicated of a bonus that even requires Romans to have a third unique unit.

You have to see this in the context of the civs tech tree. As most of the armor upgrades is compensated for by their civ-bonus (which I’d apply to all blacksmith techs in this proposal), as well as the other techs being accounted for by civ bonusses and or unique units particularly high stats.

You were right. I edited my post in response to your comment and wrote one to reflect that change, but since you deleted your comment I deleted my response to it.
In general where I’m going for here is the DoI approach to civ creation, by having a quite spotty tech tree but compensating for it by giving particular strong civ boni and Unique Units, as I think that is at this point a better approach to make new civs feel different and interesting.

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With your changes how are they supposed to deal with xbow or cav archers civ on castle age? knight lack bloodlines, there’s still extra armored skirm and cheaper scorp but both can be destroyed by mangonel.

Turn Legionary to a Ratha like switch unit to Skirmisher/Swordsman instead of charge attack

There are lots of Civs without Bloodlines. I think tankier skirms and even Knights without Bloodlines are still suitable to deal with X-bows.

Basically a considerably worse version of bulgarians/drav or celts, ie strong power spike(weak in your case), reliance on siege, with a weaker to terrible imperial age (even more so in your case)

You tried to make them interesting, but your UU knight is almost literally a burg paladin with a reskin. The civ is slow AF, with no real composition in imperial, and you nuked legions “because”. I think you’ve watched too much mikeempires and believed all the knee jerk hype on how effective roman infantry is, instead of actually understanding how poor it still is, specifically with it’s lack of support, and in your case, even worse raiding potential.

You mean the part where 2 civs were OP AF, and 2 were literally useless? Well then you did it perfectly. Or did you miss the part where these civs are still complained about, and 3 of them arguably still have balance issues.

Because most of them are archers civs?

What’s the point of tankier skirm when generic ones already has a ton of PA and this weakness can be easily covered by one mangonel. As for knight without bloodlines they are not cost efficient enough.

When i see your changes. there is nothing appealing about their gameplay.
Archers line have ton of armor but lack damage since Bracer, chemistry and TR are missing.
Infantry, their militia line is not worth to invest until you get legionary, but that problem was still there even without your changes. Now you want to remove blast furnace, (which is also a nerf to their halb btw) nerf centurion, and somehow the UT is also nerf since unlike goth you dont have a discount on legionary. So they wont be as easy to spam like them.
cavalry, same thing as infantry not worth to invest until this new paladin replacement.
Siege is probably the only exception with scorpion, but compared to others siege civ like slave or celts or even siege bonus from dravidian, bulgarian being applied to other siege units. This look like a bit meh.

My two cents:

  • Scorpions (in general):
  1. Make them gold cheaper: 80 wood 60 gold from 75 wood 75 gold
  • Centurion:
  1. 100 (130) HP from 120 (155) HP
  2. Attack: 12 (15) from 13 (15)
  3. Armor: 1/2 (2/3) from 2/3 (3/3)
  4. Aura effect: 8 (10) range from 10 (12); Movement speed 10% (15%) same; Attack speed 15% (25%) from 25% (33%)
  5. Cost: the same and Elite upgrade cost: the same
  • Legionary:
  1. Reduce the bonus attack vs eagles to +6 from +8
  2. Legionary upgrade makes them -10 food cheaper to 50 food 20 gold from 60 food 20 gold
  • Roman civ bonus:
  1. Scorpion are not cheaper but still benefit from Ballistics
  • Roman Unique techs:
  1. Ballistas: Scorpions and Galley-lines fire 33% faster and Scorpions cost -50% gold
  2. Comitatenses: Militia-line and Centurion train 33% faster and receive charge attack +5 (exclude the Knight-line)

Scorpions gold reduction now 30% from 60%

Centurions 110 (140)
Attack 12 (15)
Armor 2/2 (2/3)
Aura effect halved
10F and 10 G cost reduction a 100F and 100G upgrade reduction

Legionaries no changes

Ballistas 20% faster from 33% to both galleys and scorpions
Commitatenses: militia, knights adn centurions train 40% faster and gets extra 10 hp, no charge bonus