Ofc we can.
Look up what I wrote. It’s not even half a concept. And it’s not necessary to make more cause @Player870583437 already gave so much cultural info to finish it with ease.
In my opintion it’s even easier, cause we only need to give a basic strategical direction and the challenging cultural part is already covered by someone who is from that culture. Couldn’t ask for any better pre-work for a civ design.
If you don’t see that, I don’t know what your issue is tbh.
That’s pretty cool actually. The eco bonus is especially inventive and makes sense historically. And the whole “economic defensive” would make sense historically, with them being invaded, since usually boom civs are the ones invaded by aggro civs. What technologies you think they should/shouldn’t have access to?
Why? As far as I know, Judgement12456 had a problem with me making multiple Romanian-related topics, not with you, I don’t think he would have a problem with you. This topic was made by the moderator as a compromise since Judgement12456 kept complaining that I made too many Romanian-related topics, so he made this topic where I can post as much as I like about it and told Judgement12456 not to bother me here.
Calling the mod for you too would already be highly unreasonable from his part and I doubt the mod would side with him in that case. There’s no forum rules against making a topic about a specific civ (obviously) and the mod said I didn’t break any particular rule it was more of a compromise between me an Judgement12456 this topic.
You can always ask for clarification, but given the circumstances I don’t think the case is “for everyone”. If 2 different people have different concepts about the Serbs it would be absurd that both must use the same topic. Especially when there’s no rule against it and this topic was already a personal compromise between 2 people.
Actually, no. I asked @EliteRiflemann if I was allowed to make my own topic on the Vlachs, sharing my own concept for the civ. He said no. So that means all new threads and topics about the Romanians/Wallachians aside from this one are banned. Forever.
I see, sorry about that, it seems unfair, I did not mean it, if you ask me I don’t even know why Judgement12456 being offended was a reasonable reason to begin with (he wants African civs), you can be offended for unreasonable reasons, but you can always post it here.
You’re right, it is unfair. No one else had anything to do with the situation, but because you repeatedly spammed unnecessary topics about the same civ, people are weary of the subject and now everyone is affected. Please, try to be more mindful of that next time.
I could, but I typically like to post civ concepts as their own threads, because we can have separate discussions about history, balance, and overall critiques of the concept that wouldn’t be possible in a shared thread, because they would be drowned out by other posts.
There is no rule against making multiple topics related to the same theme. It’s not spam because they were different, one was about civ concept, another about Bassarab & Bogdan, another about Michael the Brave, and so on. Yes, they are related, but that’s like saying you cannot talk about wheels and engine because they both have the common theme of a car. Unnecessary is subjective, people who liked them clearly didn’t see them as unnecessary, what I find unnecessary is for Judgement12345 to be offended that I make multiple Romania topics and “spam” the forum because he wants African civs.
Yes, let’s wait and see what they do with that…
I would pretty much give them the same tech tree as you. I’m curious why you didn’t gave them Steppe Lancers, cause I thought they would have been used.
But I would probably give them a better Monastery and also think of better docks. Especially as the eco bonus they have is basically land only. But also I think that the dock is quite thin outside of the fire ship llne. Imo it needs more even when you don’t want it to be a decent water civ. I wouldn’t get why a civ with good access to water would be subpar to pure land civs like bohemians on water maps…
But I would take away Paladin, it’s too much of a stretch for me. And with the eco bonus, the food reduction, the faster training and potentially a UT they should have decent cav play even without Paladin.
So Romanians would have one of the broadest tech trees but no massive bonus to a specific line. The eco bonus would lead towards cav play in general, but potentially also a lot of trash in reaction to the opponents units.
Speaking of the eco bonus. I calculated a bit. And it’s almost potentially a bit too powerful. I calculated that you could place a mill first and chop all your stragglers to place 6-7 early Farms (which you don’t harvest with vills, but only with your TC). You could make this with delaying your Feudal by 2 Villagers. It might be possible to do 4 farms with only a delay of 1 vill. By about minute 11 you should get equal with res collected and get basically free 48 F / minute. This is better than Chinese economy. But also less flexible. Still, it might be necessary to reduce that eco Bonus a bit or stagger it with the ages or Farm upgrades. The bonus prob needs some finetuning as it should still have senseble impact when you normally add farms in feudal. So probably only a reduced rate in dark age.
Coming to the UU. Practically I would design the Viteji as a medium cavalry (with like 40 % gold ratio). Their speciality would be the low damage semi-short range bow attack in a ranged mode (similar to ratha, but weaker). And opposed to Ratha the Viteji wouldn’t have the Cavalry Archer armor class Also considerably faster moving (at least the speed of camels). This would make Viteji a very dangerous weapon in good hands, but also weaker than the standard knight line when you aren’t as good in caring about them.
At last, looking at the possible imp tech. You proposed “Order of the Dragon” in Castle Age which I would move to imp. This could give Knights and Viteji +3 melee attack against other Cavalry and Camels. This is ofc their counterpart to the Paladin / Heavy Camel upgrade and should even the battleground with these civs who get them. Should be comparably cheap for an imp UT as it is situational.
I find the Steppe Lancers to be a fully Eastern unit, and given that the Romanians had a mix of East and West doctrines it didn’t really fit in my opinion. Only 3 civs have Steppe Lancers and there are still more civs in game more deserving of Steppe Lancers that don’t have it. So I thought I should be consistent with the game’s design.
My reasoning was that the Church didn’t have as much influence as in Catholic countries or even Orthodox Russia. The people respected the church, but that’s about it, it had no real power. Same for the docks with the Romanians not being really famous for their maritime power.
Why would the Paladin be too much of a stretch? They did use traditional knights with western european armor and weapons. And their most elite units in the Small Host was elite cavalry, which is exactly what the Paladin is in game.
Yes, that’s kind of how I view it. Very broad tech tree due to their versatility but no particular eco bonus due to their poverty, being a small country when compared to others. Basically, I envision playing Romanians as being able to do anything but not everything.
Perhaps something like Farms placed near TC have +100 food would be better? you essentially save wood but not a lot. Or something like +2 carry capacity for villagers on farms near TC.
Yes, that would work, Viteji could be excellent in the hands of a good micromanager but bad if you try to play them as pure melee knights or pure cavalry archers.
Indeed, perhaps Order of the Dragon should be an imperial tech so that you have time to defeat the Romanians before they reach imperial and actually get a good advantage there. To be offset by the early to mid game poor economy. If there is Paladin something like +1 attack and 10% cheaper would be interesting.
Here’s an idea I had for a team bonus for my Vlachs concept: Lumber and Mining Camps provide +5 population space
The former would be a reference to all the forests present in Romania, and the latter would be a reference to Rosia Montana, a Romanian mining town that’s been around since the Stone Age.
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I like the concept, but wouldn’t it be a bit too broken as a team bonus? especially on competitive levels? it saves you 25 wood in dark age, 75 wood in feudal age, and that’s for everyone in the team. Perhaps for Romanians only would be balanced. But as a team bonus it sounds to me like the type of bonus that can lead to broken civs.
Another interesting concept would be having the unqiue castle: Poenari Castle. With a unique bonus: it receives the hill bonus damage regardless whether it’s on a hill or not. This would make castle placement with Romanians very interesting and dangerous. Which well, it’s accurate.
For example, Stephen the Great after his defeat against Mehmed the Conqueror here:
The campaign was a failure because the sieges of Neamt Castle and Suceava fail. His army wasn’t as big as when he took Constantinopole, but this was the man who took Constantinopole after all. Being a small country trapped between big neighbours forces you to make very defensive castles.
EDIT: And given we are on the Battle of Valea Alba post, I think either Valea Alba or Vaslui would make a great single scenario battle because of the tactics involved.
Valea Alba:
The Ottoman army crossed the Danube in the second half of June 1476, then advanced on the Siret Valley, towards Suceava. Under these conditions, Stephen strengthened the fortresses and sent part of the army against the Tatars, succeeding in driving them out of the country, cutting the supplies of the Ottomans. Without receiving help from the Poles or Hungarians, Stephen was forced to oppose the invading army with only about 10,000-12,000 soldiers. He established his camp on a high plateau, that he fortified with trenches, palisades and wagons linked together, according to the Hussite model.
On July 25, 1476, Stephen attacked the Ottoman vanguard led by the beylerbey of Rumelia, Süleyman Hadambul, whom he had previously defeated at the Battle of Vaslui. He inflicted heavy losses, but the arrival of the main Ottoman army forced him to retreat to the fortified camp, sheltered by the artillery. The next day, on July 26, 1476, after an artillery duel, the main Ottoman forces were lured into a forest that was set on fire, causing some casualties to the attacking Ottoman army in the forest. According to another battle description, the defending Moldavian forces repelled several attacks with steady fire from hand-guns. The attacking Ottoman Janissaries were forced to crouch on their stomachs instead of charging headlong into the defenders’ positions. Seeing the imminent defeat of his forces, Mehmed charged with his personal guard against the Moldavians, managing to rally the Janissaries, and turning the tide of the battle. Ottoman Janissaries penetrated inside the forest and engaged the defenders in man-to-man fighting.
Stephen, after a fierce resistance, overwhelmed by the number of opponents, was forced to abandon the camp and retreat through the forest. Although the Moldavian chronicler Grigore Ureche says that both the Ottomans and Stephen suffered heavy losses, saying that the entire battlefield was covered with the bones of the dead, other Christian sources say that the losses were very small for the Moldavians. The Polish chronicler Jan Długosz estimates them at “more than 200 dead”, and the Italian Giovanni Maria Angiolello states that “about 200 were killed and about 800 captured”. Given the subsequent course of events, Stephen likely saved most of his army, which he regrouped and used to constantly harass the Ottomans.
GAMEPLAY: Imagine playing as the Turks having a big army and then:
- Your vanguard gets harassed
- When you get to help the vanguard enemy artillery attacks you.
- After you counter-attack the artillery the forest you are in sets on fire.
- Then your main attacks looks like will be repulsed and you have to play as Mehmed and reinforce the lines.
Vaslui: (one year earlier)
The invading army entered Moldavia in December 1474. To fatigue the Ottomans, Stephen had instituted a policy of scorched earth and poisoned waters. Troops who specialised in setting ambushes harassed the advancing Ottomans. The population and livestock were evacuated to the north of the country into the mountains.
Ottoman scouts reported to Suleiman that there were untouched villages near Vaslui, and the Ottomans headed for that region. The winter made it difficult to set camp, which forced the Ottomans to move quickly and head for the Moldavian capital, Suceava. To reach Vaslui, where the Moldavian army had its main camp, they needed to cross Podul Înalt over the Bârlad River. The bridge was made of wood and not suitable for heavy transportation of troops. Stephen chose that area for the battle – the same location where his father, Bogdan II, had defeated the Poles in 1450; and where he, at the age of 17, had fought side by side with Vlad ‘the Impaler’. The area was ideal for the defenders: the valley was a semi-oval surrounded on all sides by hills covered by forest. Inside the valley, the terrain was marshy, which restricted troop movement. Suleiman had full confidence in his troops and made few efforts to scout the area. On 10 January, on a dark and misty Tuesday morning, the battle began. The weather was frigid, and a dense fog limited vision. The Ottoman troops were exhausted, and the torrent made them look like “plucked chickens”. Stephen fortified the bridge, while setting and aiming his cannons at the structure. Peasants and archers were hidden in the forest, together with their Prince and his boyar cavalry.
The Moldavians made the first move by sending musicians to the middle of the valley. The sound of drums and bugles made Suleiman think that the entire Moldavian army awaited him there. Instead, the centre of the valley held the Székely forces and the Moldavian professional army, which were ordered to make a slow retreat when they encountered the enemy. Suleiman ordered his troops to advance and, when they made enough progress, the Moldavian artillery started to fire, followed by archers and handgunners firing from three different directions. The archers could not see the enemy for the fog, and, instead, had to follow the noise of their footsteps. The Moldavian light cavalry then helped to lure the Ottoman troops into the valley by making hit-and-run attacks. Ottoman cavalry tried to cross the wooden bridge, causing it to collapse. Those Ottoman soldiers who survived the attacks from the artillery and the archers, and who did not get caught in the marshes, had to confront the Moldavian army, together with the Székely soldiers further up the valley. The 5,000 Székely soldiers were successful in repelling 7,000 Ottoman infantrymen. Thereafter, they made a slow retreat, as instructed by Stephen, but were later routed by the Ottoman sipahi, while the remaining Ottoman infantry attacked the Moldavian flanks.
Suleiman tried to reinforce his offensive, not knowing what had happened in the valley, but then Stephen, with the full support of his boyars, ordered a major attack. All his troops, together with peasants and heavy cavalry, attacked from all sides. Simultaneously, Moldavian buglers concealed behind Ottoman lines started to sound their bugles, and in great confusion some Ottoman units changed direction to face the sound. When the Moldavian army attacked, Suleiman lost control of his army. He desperately tried to regain control, but eventually was forced to signal a retreat. The battle lasted for four days, with the last three days consisting of the fleeing Ottoman army being pursued by the Moldavian light cavalry and the 2,000-strong Polish cavalry until they reached the town of Obluciţa in Dobruja.
The Wallachians fled the field without joining battle and Laiotă now turned his sword against the Turks, who had hoped for a safe passage in Wallachia; on 20 January, he exited his castle and confronted some of the Turks that were lurking on his land. Thereafter, he took one of their flags and sent it to a Hungarian friend as proof of his bravery. The Ottoman casualties were reported as 45,000, including four Pashas killed and a hundred standards taken. Jan Długosz writes that “all but the most eminent of the Turkish prisoners are impaled”, and their corpses burned. Only one was spared – the only son of the Ottoman general Isaac Bey, of the Gazi Evrenos family, whose father had fought with Mircea the Elder. Another Polish chronicler reported that on the spot of the battle rested huge piles of bones upon each other, next to three immured crosses.
GAMEPLAY: Imagine playing as the Romanians and then:
- Having to evacuate villages and posion the wells in towns before the Ottoman Army arrives in those towns.
- While using another army to harass the Ottomans and slow down their advance.
- After that you need to move beyond the bridge and prepare your troops for an ambush, attacking from 3 sides.
- You starts off by sending musicians to lure the Ottomans.
- You have to lure them even further after engaging them with your main army so you can flank them.
- Including pushing big boulders to further cripple the Ottoman army.
- After they try to retreat you have to destroy the wooden bridge with artillery.
- After that the Wallachians supporting them in the back start turning against them.
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This video isn’t focused on kingdoms or king names, but rather the Romanian/Vlach early culture as a whole:
Which I think is perfect for taking inspiration for a civilization.
I can take a few inspirations from this:
- Shepherds Culture: Maybe they can have the same bonus as the Gurajas where they actually house sheeps. (works as a food bonus)
- Cultural Stubbornness: Monks take 100% longer to convert Romanian units and buildings.
- Shepherds Migrations: Speed bonus for villagers or infantry units.
- Vlach Unwritten Law: Something like Flemish revolution can work perfectly for Romanians, or Villagers have the same attack/defense stats as the current milita-line, Romanian villagers can build buildings for their allies.
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My view on adding Vlachs/Wallachians etc tin the game is quite different from what I’ve read so far.
For me the problem with adding Eastern European civs is that there is already a civ that contains all these civs in one.
The Slavs. Maybe the most controversial title for a civ you can give. Slavs cover a wide range of tribes/ethnicities of the area. Slavs are Vlachs, Serbians, Kievan Rus/Russians(we need a Russian civ too for that matter), Croatians etc. The list goes on.
Imo Slavs should be removed from the game and break down into at least 3 to 4 new eastern civs. One of the them can be Romania//Wallachia(although historically, if we exclude the resistance against the Turkish invention, they have little to offer as an ‘‘empire’’, no offence but they had little contribution/part in warfare of middle ages.)
Nevertheless I would like to see the civ you described. But only if Slavs break down into multiple regional civs.
And definitely we need a Russian civ too.
The Slavs civ is based on the Eastern Slavs who were simply Ruthenians in the Middle Ages.
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So? That doesn’t contradicts with what I’ve said.
Even tho slavs are the closest thing to a romanian civi ingame historically vlachs albanians and finns are not slavic people.
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Sure, but my point is that ‘‘Slavs’’ is not an ‘‘empire’’. It’s a group of people that broke down to many medieval kingdom/empires.
On the other hand we can say the same about other civs in the game like Italians
Oh that’s interesting…
Mining camps boom is coming xd…
I like it…
Yes, just as there was an Indian dlc, we need a Balkan dlc… Serbs, Croats, Vlacs and rename the Slavs into Russians…
Also, Russians or Ruthenians…
Yes, that’s what The Forgotten civs have, which were huge umbrellas when they came out…
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The first Slavic “empires”, i.e. the State of Samo and Great Moravia, although they were established before the internal split of the Slavs, were undoubtedly West Slavic states. Great Moravia transformed into Bohemia.
You wrote that the current Slavs civ should be deleted. The only thing that needs to be done with them is to change their name to Ruthenians civ.
You wrote that you should add Russians civ, but there was no Russia then - everything there was Ruthenia: Kiev Ruthenia, Novgorod Ruthenia, White Ruthenia and Red Ruthenia.
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