This is a werid argument and a lot of parties involved sound almost offended by inaccuracies in a video game where the word of god is wololo. I repeat, for all arguers, there are 4 centuries between when the game is and where we are now.
Where one’s lineage is from means little compared to what you can do for the future
Lol. Ofc no ))) You just made that up out of nothing ) Srsly.
“Then why did you say this: The gene pool of the Russians was influenced by the Vikings, Finns and Karelians”
Influenced in some part. By vikings AND some others.
And then prince Oleg Prophet conquered Kiev in 9th century. And he was from varangian clan. With him came some varangian nobles but still they were very few. And the entire Kievan population were already relatively-southern slavic people, i.e. another slavic.
I really appreciate how you are trying to figure it all out))
Need to ask scientists. This is all arguable. Their radicals say it happened like in dinosaur era already, our radicals say it never happened. I think reasonable answer is that they formed it in 8-15 ct.
Good good, so you are able to follow basic sentence structure. Now for the full part, you said: “The gene pool of the Russians was influenced by the Vikings, Finns and Karelians” AND Ukrainians are a relatively southern people, they appeared near the Black Sea. So both had very few, but the Russians were influenced by the Vikings. But the Ukrainians weren’t.
Come on, improve your basic sentence structure skills, you can do better than that.
What about the White Russians?
White Russians (Belarus) existed not as a country but as a region that at different times belonged to Rus’, Lithuania and Poland. They really became a country recently and can not be AoE civ for objective reasons.
I’ll draw one more pic for you so you don’t get that mad about Ukraine topic =)
So like… can we bring this conversation back to designing with stats bonuses Uniques and tech trees for civs and stop this large back and forth drowning out such more important conversations?
I meant when did they became a separate cultural identity from the rest of the East Slavs. They became an independent country recently, but existed long before that.
I agree that it is worth ending the discussion of national policy. Here’s my final argument. I drew this especially for Player87. This is my personal vision and some may disagree with it, but I am a Slav, a writer and have a good understanding of history and politics. I think that in this picture I explained everything and there is no need to continue.
And I will repeat it again. The Vikings were in Kievan Rus only because they came there as conquerors at the head of Novgorod Rus’. But Kyiv ALREADY existed by that time and was created by the Ukrainian people. Although they might not call themselves that yet, it’s just the naming which is arguable.
Oh, and one more little idea. I know that it will never be accepted, but I just like it and would work very well with the civilization of Ukraine. Rename its historical periods:
Dark age - Black Sea Slavs
Feudal age - Kievan Rus
Castle Age - Cossackhood
Imperial age - Ukraine
Makes sense for Ukraine, but imagine having to give unique ages name to all civs in the game? won’t happen. Not only you have to come up with a name for all of them, but it will be very confusing to the players.
Yes, that is very annoying…
Yes, the Vikings reached as far as Sicily and the Byzantine Empire, how could they not reach Rus?..
Between the medieval period and the 20th century, different states at various times controlled the lands of modern-day Belarus, including Kievan Rus’, the Principality of Polotsk (Slavs in AoE 2 and Rus in AoE 4), the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Lithuanians in AoE 2), the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth (Poles in AoE 2/3), and the Russian Empire (Russians in AoE 3).
It seems fine to me, although the Cossacks would have arrived until the 17th century…
We do have polish winged hussars ingame so cossacks would be an ok addition.
Ok, but need to be early cossacks before 1600… Early “Proto-Cossack” groups are generally reported to have come into existence within what is now Ukraine in the 13th century as the influence of Cumans grew weaker, although some have ascribed their origins to as early as the mid-8th century.[16] Some historians suggest that the Cossack people were of mixed ethnic origin, descending from East Slavs, Turks, Tatars, and others who settled or passed through the vast Steppe.[17] Some Turkologists, however, argue that Cossacks are descendants of the native Cumans of Ukraine, who had lived there long before the Mongol invasion.[18]
As the grand duchies of Moscow and Lithuania grew in power, new political entities appeared in the region. These included Moldavia and the Crimean Khanate. In 1261, Slavic people living in the area between the Dniester and the Volga were mentioned in Ruthenian chronicles. Historical records of the Cossacks before the 16th century are scant, as is the history of the Ukrainian lands in that period.[citation needed]
As early as the 15th century, a few individuals ventured into the Wild Fields, the southern frontier regions of Ukraine separating Poland-Lithuania from the Crimean Khanate. These were short-term expeditions, to acquire the resources of what was a naturally rich and fertile region teeming with cattle, wild animals, and fish. This lifestyle, based on subsistence agriculture, hunting, and either returning home in the winter or settling permanently, came to be known as the Cossack way of life. The Tatar raids also played an important role in the development of the Cossacks.
I don’t see how. They’re called the KIEVAN Rus. Kiev, as in Ukraine. Not only are Russia and Ukraine the same, but Ukraine is the original Russia. At least when it comes to the medieval period.
Sure, Kievan Rus was the original Russia until the Mongol invasion in 1237, the Rus was fragmented in 1240 in various Slavs states. Kiev was annexed by Lithuania in 1471 and finally by the Russian Empire after the third Polish Partition in 1793.
lol no
hell no
I am tired to explain same thing on and on. I no longer blame specific people for this misunderstanding, but I see that there is some kind of very large educational hole in the world. I’ve posted this on the forum many times, but I’m lazy to look for where it was.
I’ll say it briefly. How did Kievan Rus appear? Novgorod prince Oleg conquered Kyiv. Understand? Conquered. Didn’t build it. That is, Kyiv was already there. Built by whom? Ukrainians. And Novgorod was already there. Built by Russians. BEFORE Kievan Rus.
Also, here’s a pic for you.
The Slavs represent the Kievan Rus. This encompassed both modern-day Ukraine and Russia. “Ruthenia” was an exonym used by medieval Europeans to refer to the Kievan Rus. Thus, the Slavs can be renamed the Ruthenians, and there is no need for both Ukraine and Russia civs in the game, as they were unified for most of the Middle Ages. Everyone else agrees with this sentiment.
Who are those “everyone else”? The world community that unitedly supports Ukraine and its struggle for freedom? Those who in one spirit condemn Putin’s propaganda that says “We are one people, so we will conquer and subjugate them again”? You seem to want to support this propaganda.
The people on the forums. No one other than you wants separate Russian and Ukrainian civs, and want the Slavs to simply be renamed the Ruthenians.
First off, I don’t support this propaganda. Second, modern politics are not the same as what happened in the Middle Ages. Russian and Ukraine are separate now, and should be, but they were not in the Middle Ages, when the game takes place. Decisions should not be made for the game based on current events, so the Slavs should not be two civs, because they weren’t in the Middle Ages.
Do not speak for everyone. You not everyone. I seen pretty much of support for divide concept. Also I do not see other Russians or Ukrainians here. I see mostly Germans, Polish, Spaniards and Peruvians explaining me my history.
Game takes place in 5 - 17 ct. Kievan Rus existed 3ct only and broke up. It was neither the original, nor the final, nor any noticeable intermediate form.
For most of history, Ukraine was not a free country, that’s true. But it WAS a separate people with a separate culture and language. It was captured partly by Russia, partly by the Tatars, partly by Poland and partly by Ottomans. Why don’t you say that Ukraine and Poland and Turks are one people?
This is all unbelievable. We are discussing here how to implement the Vlachs as a separate civilization, and I fully support this. But for some reason no one remembers that at that time they were occupied by Hungary, Poland, Russia and Ottomans. Why doesn’t anyone even talks this?
Lithuania was part of the Polish Principality; Lithuania never had its own king. But Lithuania is in the game.
Poland was a province of Germany or Russia for most of its history. But there are Poles in the game.
India is represented by as many as 4 nations! 4!
Japan and China have occupied each other for most of history. But they are not presented as 1 nation.
And the funniest thing. Burgundy. This is generally a territory that had relative independence for only 19 years and was just a couple of cities, it was separatism during difficult times for France. And they are in the game as a separate civ!
And then some come and say - “Russians and Ukrainians do not exist”. You don’t even know what you’re talking about. This political connection has always been artificial; almost no one among the people supported it. Even in times of peace, people said: “Yes, we have a common history, but we are not them.” And for centuries, both peoples called each other with racial slurs. Ukrainians called Russians “katsap” (butcher), and vice versa - “hokhol” (forelock). They never wanted to be one country. Literally, never. Ukrainians were fighting for freedom for centuries. If they counted themselves Russians they wouldn’t have their own language, architecture style, their own writers, their rebels and so on. Belonged to 4 sides! But you say “nope, they are Russians”. Lol no.
Also they would look very unique in the game if having specific skins, sounding, UU (I really wanna see Cossacks), buildings (wanna see pigsty and korchma).
