Rus Cavalry Archers tuning needed

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
2

HA6
HA61920×1080 204 KB

Its 23 which is even much worse

Its due to flame arrow upgrade from university which is applicated twice for them (12 base dmg x1,2 = 14,4x1,2 = 17,28 = 17dmg without any upgrade only from tech. from uni.) than +3 from regular upgrade from blacksmith and another +3 when u upgrade them to their elite version.

Yes solve that bug problem with the uni upgrade and make correct attack speed (which is way faster than on paper) - thats first step

Second step:

IS THIS as u mentioned

OR

Increase training time so u cannot spamm them so fast for their cheap price + Reduce their attack range by 0,5 tiles at least. Look at the other mounted ranged units and theirs range.

PROBLEM SOLVED

1 Like
3

Not only they are strong but they are ruining entire TGs experience even on top top ladder.

With combination of strongest RUS sieges (13,5tr springald - no setup mango) its simple - u dont kill RUS player in first 15 minits - you died

(not to even mention some other broken features related to RUS as spamming hunting cabins - you spamm 20 of those to get 40 g/p from each which is 800 g/per min in total - its not hard for you to capture another 2 relics and u have 1000 g/p income without ANY NEED OF WASTING POPCAP on gold (traders/miners) so u can field-up 20 more HA or 7 springalds which counter any siege from game.

SOLUTION?

Increase wood cost for every additional HC by +50 wood per each (if u go above 3 HC in total)

Another PROBLEM SOLVED

4

If current bugs are fixed for the unit and they remain strong then cost increase might do it.

If they werent bugged, archers would trade much more effectively against them

1 Like
5

Only to fix a bug around them is still not enough - you still have 20dmg cavalry unit with a range of almost longbows which u cannot even chase with regular bows because he dictates the tempo of game and place of fight - not you - which is kinda bad for you on super-overtuned maps of 3v3/4v4

Yes this might not be as huge problem in 1v1s but than again.

Are RUS supposed to be a faction which only stupidly spamm one unit? if so u basicily removed one faction from the game

2 Likes
6

They lose hard to archers, They are doing good because of many things combined Pro scout is strong, They are bugged and scouts in general tank too much. Otherwise you get advantage over them. They die fast to archers/mangonels/towers and any defensive building that shoots, they can’t destroy buildings as fast so a rus player going mainly HA will have a hard time dealing against buildings/walls.

To this we add if horsemen wasn’t as bad as they are right now. Horsemen destroy HA and the benefit over them is that Horsemen can destroy buildings fast

1 Like
7

Ehm? nope? they have better dmg, better range, more hps, much more mobility … how is this lose hard to archers? HA are not spears okay bruh?

This is disscusin about HA vs. regular archers why u even mention sieges? not to even bother with fact that archers are WAAAY more fragile to sieges so pls. stop. - HA can even kill sieges on its own because of their high base dmg - can dodge them because of mobility and can run away form them and strike elswhere.

Okay am done. end of disscusin here. Ever heard about kiting? I think u dont.

To end my disscusion here I just post some of the stats of mine here:

270144267_338789784730239_249080637797791333_n
270144267_338789784730239_249080637797791333_n405×796 22.8 KB

270419469_444512463973842_5527905800864412456_n
270419469_444512463973842_5527905800864412456_n405×791 20 KB

As u can see I play moslty underwhelming civs. and not broken RUS or Chinese in tgs at all. But I know how strong and broken they are so I even stoped to play them.

8

If they go out in the third age, I think you calmly beat them with archer spam

9

That is how it should go if there weren’t that many things that make rus fast castle strong

A nerf to Pro scouts and gaining the ability to damage RUS before they get castle is already an indirect nerf to HA SPAM

2 Likes
10

The "meta" of the deer I made a post about it

11

Those Stats are pretty cool. Where did you get them?

12

AoE IV leaderboard app. on android … its really cool man

13

Don’t worry, Relic is nerfing Delhi and Abbasids so Rus cav archer won’t be so broken anymore.

2 Likes
14

They further weaken ABBASID and DELLI so people will go to play strong civilizations, the battle game between 6 middle and upper civilizations will be fair
Inked29a320405d3d5669250fc3c96c453f的方法1449f6515f_LI

15

the animation canceling needs to be fixed, but anything more than increasing the cost by 20%-30% would render them useless.

16

Bro this thread is not about Fire lancers

17

In Castle Age you have a chance to trade equaly with archer vs HA.
But full upgraded Imp HA shred archer quite well…
They both have 3 armor, 144 vs 95 HP and 23 vs 13 dmg. So 1 HA win slightly vs 2 Archer and cost less (120 vs 160 resources)! Not even considered that they can outrange them.

For me the main problem is that HA have no real counter. They are just strong vs all units. AOE4 miss a anti-range unit like skirmisher in AOE2.
For me the best way to balance HA were to give archer a attack bonus vs. light ranged units. For sure the Mangudai and CA would need a litle buff like armor then.

1 Like
18

The damage is insane by default.

The Archer cost 30 Food 50 Wood = 80 resources with a starting dmg of 5 and comparable veteran 7 dmg !
The Horsearcher cost 80 Food 40 Wood = 120 resources with a starting dmg of 12 !!!

The think the 40 costs more in total would be ok only by giving them the mobility advantage but there are nearly double the damage than normal archers.

They have even equal damage than crossbows (vs light) and this is wayyyyyy to much.
The problem is that they bypass the armor system of the game because of the high base dmg.

Archers are balanced because they low dmg number is highly modified with the armor value . If ur cutting 5 dmg (MaA armor) from a 7 or 8 dmg archer. It gets to a realy low amount and thats the advantage of high armor units.
The Horsearchers dmg isnt even halfed by the armor of a MaA AND they can kite them.
In my opinion they should have the same Damage than normal veteran archers.

It would be logical.
It would be balanced.
It would be nice and fair.

1 Like
19

Another problem related to this is fact that MANGONELS which should be a counter to HA can be one-shooted easily by HA because of their high dmg and low anti-ranged armor which mangonels has.

So u cannot be even scared by some early aggresion put from Abbasid player with archers and mangonels because u can easily ■■■■-up with both.

This unit is completely badly designed and its a neverending cancer of tgs as we can even see in current 3v3 tourney - Who of the two players uses better his HA horde - his team wins :slight_smile:

20

They are ruining 1vs1 imo too not only TG´s

Yeah, they kill them equaly fast than crossbows but they can easiely use the spread formation to reduce loses and win against 1-2 mangos.

I havnt found a downside to the spread formation yet and I thing its a balance (problem) thing too.
Is it so much of a damage loss if ur using range units nearly all time in this formation?

I think the reduced dmg from mangonals/nets of bees is more valueable than the little dps loss if im micro them step by step (shot by shot) all inside range.

21

The spread formation is a even better counter against mangonels for HA than other units, and that’s due to range+mobility. So they can take one mango shot, easily spread due to mobility, deal some damage on the mangonel, walk in, shoot again and most likely kill the mangonel. Other option is just to quickly ride away. If damaged after some area of effect hits, the Warrior Monks can heal them, and that’s a staple unit for Castle Age Rus.

I like the points Khorix made, above. They actually lose to archers not due to mere stat and cost comparison, but actually due to battle formations. As archers can clump up more, the battallion can fire more arrows than the HA. BUT, and that’s a big “but”, mangonels are a common thing in Castle Age. If both sides have magos, Rus have a gigantic advantage not only due to archers having less HP, but if the battle becomes mobile, while the battallions try to dodge the rocks, Rus have an easier time dancing through the chaos. I understand the design choice of mobility being an asset during battles, not only for map positioning, not only for kiting, but said asset shines a lot against the one unit (mangonel) that was designed to wreck big clumps of spammed units.

Besides, it’s absolutely true that Rus have a waaaaay to easy time to get into the advantageous position of Fast Castle into unit spam. They don’t even need to go for Horse Archers, if they want. HA are chosen due to being way to good for what we pay for them and their training time. It transforms the match, for your opponent, into an uphill battle. I mean, this can happen, but is way to easy for Rus to create said situation. WAY too easy.

So, in summary, HA have their problems, which, for me, are mainly the low price and high attack speed (bug or UI mistake? I don’t care), but also these two game problems make Rus’ life way too easy: Overtuned scouts (tanky, high torch damage for their role, can animation cancel) and uninteractive Pro Scouts. I believe fixing the problems mentioned in this paragraph can force variety into Rus’ comps, which is already a start that can steer the next balance changes into “buffing what is weak rather than nerfing what is strong”, which the devs said is what they rather do regarding this type of topic.