Similar to how Iroquois and Sioux were changed in Age of Empires III because they also had derogatory meaning. I think changing Saracens to Arabs or Caliphate will be more recognisable and respectful.
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This dosent really represent arabic people to me.sounds more like empire or kingdom.
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Because the current game saracen represent the empire (first 4 caliphates) rather than Arabs only.
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They speak arabic and saracens is the term crusaders used for them if im not mistaken so saracens to me seems ok.
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Thatâs why it is derogatory.
Iroquois and Sioux were also terms used by their neighbours used as an abuse to refer them. French adopted the name without realising the meaning. It was changed to fix this mistake.
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No. I hate political correctness. Itâs not an offensive term. No one with any sense is complaining about its usage in a game set in a time period when it was used.
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No one? What do you mean? Donât you see this post and the Google search describing the origins of the term?
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Itâs not an offensive term. Itâs a historical one with a specific context in the medieval period. Personally, I think more civs with period-accurate names should be added.
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I bet you would have said the same about Iroquois and Sioux as well.
I do think the change was unnecessary, but I understand why it was done. That subject is a bit more sensitive due to being more recent.
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Honestly your arguments are falling apart.
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Is that why you havenât bothered refuting them?
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Yes my friend that is the reason.
No, an argument youâre not refuting is an argument you CANâT refute. Ergo, I win.
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Winner winner chicken dinner.
Yes, I agree⊠Arabs would be a more correct term⊠Saracen is one of the names with which medieval Christianity generically referred to Arabs or Muslims. The words âIslamâ and âMuslimâ were not introduced into European languages ââuntil the 17th century, when expressions such as âlaw of Mohammedâ, Mohammedans, Ismailis, Agarenes, Moors, etc. were used beforeâŠ
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You are citting an article from this journal https://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/issue/view/372 named âWhy Were Arabs and Muslims Called Saracens in the Medieval and the Renaissance Literature?â. Right in the next page (your google answer cites p. 143), the same author says, now with his own words:
âThird, since the two words of âSaracenâ and âsariqinâ were used almost in the same periods of time in different writings, the first word has nothing to do with the latter one. Each word has its own literal meanings and connotations. In addition, the name of Saracen was clearly restricted to the European languages, so it must
have come originally from a European language which had a profound influence on the other languages of the continent. It is never related to the Arabic words of âsariqinâ, âsharquiyinâ or âsarisaâ. It is of a purely European
origin.â
On the Conclusion, p. 147, he says:
âThe aim of this paper was to point out the real explanation of the use of the name of Saracens to describe Arabs and Muslims and to argue the other given explanations. Despite the limited length of the article, the research done in the article revealed that the skin color is used in several languages to represent people, sometimes offensively and sometimes neutrally. The research also revealed that the word âSaracenâ, which is the French name of buckwheat, was used to describe Arabs and some other peoples with the same skin tone, akin to the color of the buckwheat, because of their complexion. However it was often used to refer to peoples with certain moral qualities and religious beliefs. The name of Saracens, therefore, does not have any negative meanings by its own. It is the way the writers used the name that makes it acquire negative connotations of immorality, paganism, violence, and brutality. In The ancient Roman administrative document of Notitia Dignitatum, for example, the name of Saracen was used formally and neutrally to refer to certain people who were part of the Roman Empire and formed a major military unit of its army.
The article demonstrated how the other efforts to study the name of Saracens etymologically provided unconvincing explanations and thus not acceptable for the preceding reasons.
Further research is needed to explain the reasons why the English writers used the name of Saracen in such an offensive way to describe people living in regions as far as the Middle East in times when cultural contacts
between the West and the East were so few if not so rare.â
Now, in a region that I have a bit more of knowledge, in medieval Portugal, saracen could be:
I) an erudite term used to refer to muslims, though it was barelyu used at all
II) people outside Portugal that are related to the Muslims reigns
III) an archaism coming from Rome in their religious documents*
- BARROS, Maria Filomena Lopes de. Tempos e espaços de mouros: a minoria ######### no Reino PortuguĂȘs (sĂ©culos XII a XV). Dissertação (Doutorado em HistĂłria) â Universidade de Ăvora. Ăvora, 2004, pp. 26-28. You can check it at https://dspace.uevora.pt/rdpc/handle/10174/11493
According to Barros, p. 28, later on, in XIVth and XVth centuries, the term used in Portugal was exclusively âmoorâ, even translating âsarracenoâ to âmouroâ from in the âscriptorium alcobacenseâ (XIIIth or XIVth century).
To sum up: there is no clear evidence that saracen means âto stealâ as the real root of the word has been lost. Its a term nativelly from the catholic peoples, that could have different meanings through time and space. Which doesnt mean that calling them âsaracensâ is the better term, nor means its offensive per se.
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Your account is active for less than a month, and the first thing you go about is making shaky political posts trying to troll/create fake controversies?
You are selecting the proposed definitions on purpose of creating controversy: the two most obvious before the one you cited is ĆĄrq âeastâ and ĆĄrkt âtribe, confederationâ. And the use of the term dates back to the 7th century according to Wikipedia, and was used up until the early modern era. It is the medieval term and there is nothing offensive in it. Most AOE2 civ names have always been really broad and mostly try to stick with their medieval flavourful transcriptions, like âFranksâ for French, âTeutonsâ for Germans etcâŠ
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What is this obsession with age of an account? Is there some rule to do submission/laying down arms to Old Accounts here before being able to say something? Is this some kind of college ragging going on here?
From Wikipedia if you trace the closest word even in Arabic it is sÄriq (Arabic: ۳ۧ۱Ù), pl. sÄriqÄ«n (۳ۧ۱ÙÙÙ), which means âthief, marauderâ. Semitic root is srq âto steal, rob, thiefâ.
Even they themselves never called themselves Saracens. They called themselves ÄrabiyÄ. Only the crusading christians used the word for their enemy. Why use the incorrect word then?
Vikings following your logic fall under the same problem: Going âvikingâ refers to go about raiding/plundering. Scandinavians/Norse people never called themselves Vikings likewise. But it is a flavourful term, broadly accepted in the popular culture that speaks to most people. So ES decided to use that term.
Do you plan to make a post about that as well?
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