Maybe make them slightly cheaper (like 50/35 or 55/30), or be able to repair siege so that sicilians may have a legit reason to play searj/siege. Maybe make their movement speed 0.95 or 1, so they could be more legit against ranged units.
I especially like the idea of them repairing siege, sounds cool.
Imo the best buff to serjeants would be a bonus to a backline unit.
Serjeants atm need the donjons for the support… which is somewhat working in the case of that donjon rush.
Sicilians could get a bonus to their scorpions or archers, Something that increases the damage output. Probably only against cavalry units.
The serjeants are really strong against all the trash counter units out there, I would probably reduce their pierce armor by 1 for a bit more HP, but that’s all I would change to the serjeants themselves. I would instead try to find something that works good in combination with the serjeants as frontline.
I will go even lower 50f/30g.
I don’t think this is a fair price for a unit that in Imperial can reach 7/8 armor…
Gold cost of all things should stay, the unit has 3/3 (4/4) armor after all…
Casusincorrabil is right, the unit needs a better support tool although even here I think Siege Ram/Halb are good supporting tools.
The main problem with Siege Rams has always been how long it takes to tech into and the fact that you need A LOT of wood to get it going (at least 3-4 Siege shops and the wood for 10+ rams).
Maybe Sicilians could get a bonus like, Siege ram researches 100% faster.
The siege repairing is fine for some closed maps too but I’d rather prefer speed/cost changes. That plus reduced cost for Donjons like -25 stone and reduced build time for Donjons when constructed by Serjeants could even make them a meta option for Sicilians.
Reducing only 5 resource on their cost won’t make them viable. If they feel oppressive, First Crusade can be changed into other effect in later patches.
Reducing the price would surely make the feudal serjeant play more viable.
i would like to see that.
Unfortunately the issue I see there is that a feudal donjon rush would probably very effective against “slow civs” whilst the civs with good feudal eco which are already thrive in the current meta could push it back way more easily…
It’s not the Sicilians fault that atm there are so big differences between the civs in their feudal power.
I could imagine changing the Cost of Donjons to 75 W, 200 S but giving Sicilians 200 instead of 100 extra stone in the beginning. With that every civ should be able to contain a feudal donjon rush as long as it has access to stone.
As Donjons naturally scale with the ages, at later stages of the game this cost would actually fit their utility better.
I prefer to be able to build serjeants from barracks instead of dungeons. Starting from feudal age.
This way they will be more viable in Feudal Age and easier to transition to in late castle and imperial Age.
Those “slow civs” need some buffs anyway. Them and Sicilians can be buffed independently.
Armor alone means Little as you need to take HP and Speed into account as well. Serjeants might have 7/8 armor, but then why every decent player ever go for cavalier? Because even if they have close armor and cost double the Gold, they still ahve much higher HP and Speed, making it undesputably more valuable
Serjeants have lowish HP, even lower than obuch which cost 60/20 or close to that, and much than TK, despite being closer to them in cost and TK not being good to begin with. They are also slow and not really a threat to archers when micro is involved
Serjeants need a buff but also donjons, otherwise they would Always be more of a Nerf than a buff since the lack of Watch tower
That sayd, serjeants specifically i don’t think they need more utility since they can already build donjons, and they should Simply be cheaper. Their cost should be something like 50/30, to be still Gold heavy considering their armor, but at least less peoblematic especially in a feudal rush with lower food cost, making them more unique and making them usable in their niche of being available in feudal age
Speed increase should come only if we buff the Speed of militia as well i think, which is something i would heavily support, but for serjeants only no It would not make sense given their armor
Other possible change could be upping their damage by 1 for each stage, so 6/9/12. Then they would be more worth their cost
Elite upgrade should also be 300 res cheaper at least as now is 1900 res total
you realize microing archers takes away your APM right? I don’t see microing vs an 8 PA unit as THAT high value.
That might be the reason why pros always go for serjeants againts archer civs! Oh wait, they don’t…
Reality is that as long as their cost is that High and their upgrade cost is that Crazy, they would never gets back their value even against something they should be intended to fight, since mucroing against a 35 Gold unit that you spent 1900 res just to upgrade to elite, and even more if you made blacksmith upgrades (and if you don’t they they due even worse) is very worth the APM
If they didn’t have the Hauberk UT, they would for sure.
They are really strong already. Buffing scorpion is nice though
Serjant has same problem with other heavy infantries: No supporting units to cover weak sides of a heavy infantry.
No they would not, since even with hauberk sicilians are not below average, so without hauberk they would simply suck as a civ, and serjeants as they are now are not gonna change that. They would use them only because there would be nothing else to use, not because they are good
Serjeants are the second most expensive infantry unit after TK, and also have a ludicrous cost for their elite upgrade, despite not having the clear strenght that TK have (and they are also considered a weak unit, but at least has a niche), and being just a champion with more armor and less attack, and much more expensive
They are simply not viable due to being so expensive and as long as they are so costly they would never see play aside from First crusade, which is a wonky tech already. Another solution could be giving then a clear niche, like a bonus vs something, but no they instead got nerfed after the bonus reduction nerf