Serjeants - the ultimate Teutonic Huskarls

Of course you can, Militia line is a solid choice against them, also knight line (and eles).
They are just quite resistant to ranged, but still: you can outmicro them because they are quite slow. Also Siege works quite good, if you can protect it.

The Serjeant isn’t OP. The coustilier is, but the serjeant definetely not. I think every civ has at least two good unit against the serjeant. Most even more.

I actually like that there is a more pop efficient elite infantry unit in the serjeant. I’d like to see more like them.

For me the serjeant is actually more like a 60 F / 25 G unit from their stats - the 10 G extra is for the ability to build donjons. It’s balanced imho.

2 Likes

Don’t think it’s OP, they lose against almost every champion or a 2 handed swordsman with some bonus such as Bulgarians. Also, some YouTubers have made the trial and it dies against hand cannonier without microring so imagine, also cavalier and paladin beat him, and let’s no forget scorpions and siege which has been always strong against infantry. So there are a lot of ways to stop them

1 Like

i absolutely love them, for me they are what heavy infantry should have always been. if the devs do actually give them back their repair ability they will be perfect (when the UTs are nerfed)

they’ve been told this a number of times, im not gonna bother if they wont listen.

same speed as militia, but still right.

i think its more the fact that they are new(different) and therefore a new challenge to deal with, and a lot of vocal people over reacting…

1 Like

Serjeant is just an average Infantry, not too strong or too weak…

1 Like

an average infantry who can take only ‘‘2’’ dmg from FU arbalest in addition an average infantry who CAN BUIİLD TOWERS WHICH creates this average infantry xD i like ur understanding of an average :smiley:

1 Like

Well, i really wanted a powerfull and tanky infantry unit like this one, and I’m not dissapointed, even with a lot of armor is not broken but can take a punch and be very fun to use. Hopefully we would see some MINOR changes to the militia line in the future too

1 Like

1- Well they’re pretty weak in feudal and I don’t see many people building towers in castle/imp, I mean wouldn’t you rather have one castle than 3 towers or donjons? it has more hp, shoots more arrows, still creates units, gives you pop space, lets you research unique techs + conscription, and lets you make trebuchets

2- afaik teutonic knights don’t take much damage from FU arbalests either but they still get wrecked by archers because they can’t catch them, and huskarls move really fast + only take 1 damage instead of 2

3- Getting up to 50 of them for almost free seems OP though, that should probably be scaled down a bit and some secondary small bonus added to it to compensate, like training them faster or something, but the unit itself doesn’t seem super great, I’d rather train something else for gold unless it was my only option, building towers doesn’t seem like a great selling point unless you’re tower rushing early game

These are soft counters. It is like countering a small group of Crossbowmen with equal number of Knights.

These still work because 7 melee armor in isolation isn’t great. Non-trash melee units have about 16 attack (taking in blacksmith), whereas 8 pierce armor is enough to survive non-trash ranged units which have about 10 attack.

I definitely agree to it as I have written. I like the concept of Coustillier that you can charge, but the application isn’t what I like.

Doubling the base damage when frame delay kicks in would be better. The Castle Age version goes to (8 + blacksmith)*2 and Elite goes to (11 + blacksmith)*2. Frame delay kicks in when switchin targets either from one unit to another or from standing idle to attacking a unit.

This ensures that the charge damage is less concentrated. An average fight fight for an 11 attack unit lasts 8 hits. Assuming this model of charge attack, the Coustillier does it in 7 hits (since the 1st one deals double the damage). This means that in 14 seconds it is recharged. This gives approximately the same charge boost as:

40 attack / 40 sec = 1 charge attack per charge

15 attack / 14 sec = 1.07 charge attack per second

you are not talking sense.

The stats on the Serjeants are patently absurd, let’s just get that straight. They have two more melee armor than an Elite Berserk, which is already a problem unit. Their speed is one of their only major downsides, the other being the cost. That being said, you can make them really, really quick, so if you can afford them, they are incredibly tough to deal with.

That that being said said, what do they really have for complements for the Serjeant? All their other options are either missing or lackluster. No Thumb ring on Arbalests, and they’ll have problems with other archer civs by missing the last armor tech on archers and E skirms. They get siege ram w/ engineers, but no other FU techs and no BBC, so it’s going to be hard to defend Donjons against trebs / siege in general. They are going to have a hell of a time dealing with siege-heavy comps like Celts, Ethiopians, the works. At least they get LC with all the upgrades, which is solid.

The Donjon and Serjeant are super strong, but when you look at what the civ lacks as compensation, it kinda needs to be. I think they’re a bit overtuned, but just a bit considering all that’s missing from the civ to make other strategies work in any meaningful way.

U were given an option to use melee units in castle age. But u think it’s OP.

CA is OP, Daut proved. This unit will never win over CA.

Play CA.

High gold cost is justified because (as you read from the thread name) Huskalrls and Teutonic Knights both cost 40 gold naturally. Aside from that the slow movement speed and low attack in Imperial is also frustrating. But the unit should be beast in Castle Age with those stats. Glad that gold effectiveness isn’t a parameter in Castle Age.

Also about the creation speed, non-ranged infantry unique units are created almost as fast. It is a general rule. Probably the Huskarl is created slower, but then you have an option to build them at Barracks, and speed up the Barracks too.

Also yeah as I said, the support unit is missing. The Civ has really good Cavaliers but Infantry and Cavalry do not support each other since both are supposed to be frontline. The only exception is when one of them is ranged. Example - Franks.

They should really get a Siege bonus for sure, as otherwise they have lackluster composition options.

given all its armor it can’t by design have a high attack, there is this thing called balance and it must be maintained. they already do very well against archer units and melee units have a hard time taking them down as well.

you mean like Arbs that take half damage from anti archer units or skirms that laugh at other skirms? they got those. there is your support.

1 Like

Serjeant is not a strong UU, it is underwhelming, and needs support.

It is not fast enough to be as good as Huskarls and Eagles, and not cheap enough to actually compete with Malay Trash-handers and Bulgarians Bagains.

It is a decent unit whose main ability is building a Tower that trains more of it, but you need support for Serjeants to actually be useful and not just be a waste of Gold.

As Sicilians, you really need Cavaliers or Arbalests, and should focus on Scouts and Archers in Feudal, in preparation for the Castle Age Serjeant push with Knights or Crossbows.

Going pure Serjeant is just suicide, and the devs had the foresight to make them worse than M@A in Feudal to make sure they are not viable, on purpose.

1 Like

I honestly think that serjeants are actually too expensive for what they are. I could see them as a part of an infantry-siege push if they were a bit cheaper at least. On their own, they are quite underwhelming.

1 Like

I wouldn’t say its underwhealming. As I said in a standard game without the donjon ability I would go for it if it costs 10 gold less. So with this ability it is worth its cost.

But with the statement it need support you are completely right. It is a good frontline unit. With some ranged support it is strong, but not on its own, besides it is quite usefull for raiding once you defeated the enemy army.

I hope the devs see this potential and adjust the donjpn rush so it doesn’t provides the ranged support on its own, but still with the ability to rebuild the dead serjeants where they are needed: on the front. This would be interesting to play both as and against the sicilians, which have a very strong army comp , but vulnerable ranged support (which can be garrisoned in donjons).
This would make it a very interesting civ, opposite to the dumb donjon rush their one trick it is atm.

The serjeant is very well balanced. Not so strong on its own, but with great synergy with ranged support.

1 Like

Ever heard about the Elite Teutonic Knights? They have the most melee armor in the game, and they now move almost as fast as Portuguese Champions. They also have 1 more pierce armor than standard infantry. Attack? They have the 3rd largest melee attack in the game. They have more attack than Elite Battle Elephants.

Arbalesters take +2 damage from Elite Skirmishers instead of +4. They also lack Ring Archer Armor. At the very best, they are regular Arbalesters against skirmishers.

They are, on purpose. The devs clearly wanted an UU that gets seen a lot, but is not the best option around.
I think it was a good choice.

Champions do it better and cheaper, and Serjeants are still not as spammable as Supplies Champs.
No matter how people cut it, Serjeants just are not that strong, or that prevalent.

Sicilians is actually better played as Scouts-Knights civ, since they are much less countered by Camels and Pikes.

It is their Tower replacement, and is already a huge nerf as it is (bigger base with the same HP means it goes down faster). There is no need to nerf Donjons, they are practically useless as Towers as it is, costing too much and being too large.

The only saving graces of the Donjon, is that it upgrades automatically and produces an overpriced unit.

But they lack an early food bonus to make this work. Besides their knights are quite strong in castle age, they fall down in imp and most other civs have a better featured power unit they can bring against it, besides pikes and halbs aren’t that effective.

I’d like if sicilians get hussars, this would make it more viable to play around this bonus. Atm i don’t think their scout/knight play is that convincing. For me the fc fc donjon rush is their best play atm.

Thy have 50% resistance to Spears, which compensates. Sicilian Scouts are actually hard to deal with, far more than a Donjon push.

Not every civ need economic bonii, if they have buffed unit stats, like 50% resistance to counter units.