Thanks. I will try it in my 1st game - the Sicilian Scrush. It will be more like the Magyar Scrush, lacking early eco bonus but being pain in the A to deal with.
1 Like
Spears are still a decent counter. Because they donāt have an early eco bonus they canāt bring that many or early scouts, so its easier to deal with their initial scrush than other civs like mongols or tatars.
Because Spears and pikes are still somewhat efficient you can easily produce them in the needed amount vs the full scout/knight play. Or you just go for your own power units if they are already able to beat sicilians convincingly.
Sicilians have probs against cav archer civs, they have no bonus to any of their lines, no strong eco bonus and no discounts. The Serjeants have nice pierce armor but can be outmicroed.
You can do this against Scouts but not Knights. Talking about a generic civilization, say Byzantines: a simple Tatar Spearmen can take down 2 Byz scouts attacking at the same time, but a Tatar Pikeman fails to kill even a single Byz Knight.
Not surprising, as knights cost more than 2x as much as pikesā¦
2 pikes can easily take out 1 sicilian knight. Besides it will kill 1 of them and also damage the second, but they will kill it and also cost less.
Also tatars have great cav archers + a nice eco bonus. They have no prob vs sicilian scout/knight play.
Everyone has, Cav Archers are strong, always were, and I always said they were.
People just had to come around the idea that you need to stop the mindless Boom into Knights, and that Cav Archers actually have no decent counters outside of Camels, and can do ASSURED and UNDENIABLE economic damage.
They have to be, otherwise it would be OP, but Sicilians can get sure Villager kills with Scouts now, which other civs cannot when there are Spears around.
1 Like
If you are able to hit the eco. But as sicilians lack an early eco bonus the opponent can easily just fully
wall + archers/skirms. Which would also help against an early donjon rush.
Considering the actual meta it feels somewhat familiarā¦
1 Like
Yes, despite all the crying about it, both civs are actually underwhelmingly average and Meta.
They fit right in, with very few balance issues.
By Tatar Spearmen, I meant a generic Spearmen without any bonus. Since Tatars have the worst Infantry in the game, it was the easiest pick for me.
Thatās where you are wrong. Since the bonus damage is halved, 1 Pike against generic Knights = 2 pikes against Sicilian Knights. You will need more than 200% numbers advantage to kill Sicilian Knights. This is even worse for Camels.
Well cannot say about them being strong or weak unless stats are released. Shoutout to Jerbot at aoestats.io.
When the last Khans was released, every civ seemed OP. The Bulgarians are the easiest to discuss since they did not receive huge changed except the Konnik which usually comes in late Castle Age. Their win rate was pretty underwhelming until the last patch buff.
Also, atm Cumans have the 3rd lowest win rate overall and lowest in pro scene.
1 Like
But, butā¦
Muh pay-to-win DLC!!! Muh power-creep!!!
Even though Franks, the most vanilla of civs, is still regulary the top 1 civ in the game in every patchā¦
1 Like
Sure? for me burgundians are abolutely OP.
OK, they have probs in the early game, but they get really nice power spikes and an insanely op UU.
Sicilians are indeed not that strong, considering their best play is the fc fc abuse, which is more a 50/50 play.
0.8 speed vs 0.99 for serjeant.
6 pierce armor vs 8. Notice the difference?
Burgundians get absolutely destroyed by Pike + Crossbow spam.
Castle Age Cavalier is not good enough to contest with Pikes, and Coustillier is only good under a Castle, because if they are forced to fight on open ground, they get demolished by Trash.
The only thing I think needs serious revision, is the Flemish Militia, because it is actually better than both Champs and Halbs, when it should be a middle ground between them.
Still solid support, despite your claims otherwise.
1 Like
I would say the Franks are strong because of the game plan. Sure they have been buffed. From being an OP civ in AoK to being a meh civ in AoC to again being strong in AoA, they have seen power shifts.
For players new to the game, the AoC killed them by:
- Giving Bloodlines to most civs.
- Introducing Halberdiers and Hussars (making Franks totally Paladin dependent, not having any other options. Knights and Cavaliers were only slightly better than generic).
- Camels having ship class meant they took bonus damage from defensive buildings but took only 50% damage from Spear units. (If Knights took 10 damage, camels took 5.)
They became strong in AoA by the following changes:
- Camels now took 80% bonus damage from Spear units. (If Knights took 10 damage, Camels took 8.)
- (Both) Throwing Axemen +10 HP, +11.1% movement speed. Franks also gain Squires.
- Franks gain a berry bonus which helps a lot in Scrush and Dark Age economy and Drushes.
- Chivalry (introduced in AoF) meant Franks can outnumber Hussars with their subpar Light Cavalry and research Cavalier and Paladin faster, making them reach their strength faster.
The small changes had added up to make the difference in both cases.
1 Like
If talking with Squires, it is 0.88 vs 0.99 otherwise 0.8 vs 0.9. Thatās why I used Portuguese since they have a good bonus, full tech tree with Champions and also lack Squires.
Still lack thumb ring and still take more damage than generic Arbalesters from other Archer and Cavalry Archer units. An underwheling support.
Also Skirmishers are used not often. Mangonels and Onagers are used, which are unaffected.
Still the most vanilla civ (Medieval game has France with Knightsā¦ how quaint) and still gets the Top 1 civ in 1v1 regularly, so the game does not have serious power-creep issues.
But why portuguese? The comparison was the serjrant vs the tk
Either way. One can be kited forever by archers and the other cannot. Furthermore the tk costs more.
The point is the tk can have all that attack because they are weak to archers. Serjeants not so much.
Lol what? Skirms arent often used? What game are you watching.
It costs 15 food and 5 gold more with supplies. Also to get it you need to sacrifice your eco.
In team games the revolution powerspike is really nice. I havenāt encountered a 1v1 game wher it brought the win for the burgundian player. Aswell as it is meme to end a already won game with the revolution.
It is more of an annoyance, and needs to be toned down a bit. Also, Flemish Militia should be trainable at Barracks, not TCs.