In ancient warfare, sword-and-shield infantry were the backbone and main force of armies. However, this historical reality is completely absent in the game. Heavy cavalry is far too powerful! To be more precise, heavy cavalry is too cheap! While heavy cavalry was indeed powerful in ancient times, it was extremely expensive to maintain—not fielded in massive numbers as seen in the game.
Perhaps you still stubbornly believe that heavy cavalry in Age of Empires IV is already costly enough. But consider this: they are designed to cost only 1 population slot, the same as a spearman. In a 200 population cap game, a single heavy cavalry unit in 4v4 matches holds more value than any other unit, including villagers. When a group of 100 heavy cavalry charges into critical areas near your Town Center, you are left utterly defenseless. They can escape if the battle turns against them and engage in endless guerrilla warfare within the core territories of four players until the opponent surrenders.
In 4v4 matches, spearmen occupy too much population space. You can only produce an army that stands no chance against heavy cavalry!
Here is my strong recommendation:
Change all heavy cavalry（horse archers） to occupy 2 population slots!（I’ve changed my mind. Their movement speed should be adjusted to 1.42.）
Change all heavy cavalry（horse archers） to occupy 2 population slots!
Change all heavy cavalry（horse archers） to occupy 2 population slots!
The balance should not be:
Heavy Cavalry=horse archers > Hand Canoneers > Crossbowmen > Sword-and-Shield Infantry = Spearmen.
I just want to restore the ancient battlefield, not deal with bandits harassing from all directions! I’m tired of using boring heavy cavalry to kill everything! I don’t want to feel like a masochist in 4v4 for not picking a civilization with overpowered heavy cavalry! It’s infuriating!
The four of us were utterly helpless against a horde of 100 cavalry. Even when we managed to produce 60 spearmen, they were instantly wiped out by the 100 cavalry. I’m devastated. This game has become extremely dull!!! Extremely, extremely dull… The only viable strategy is to play a civ with strong heavy cavalry and spam nothing but that. This one game mechanic destroys all other strategies and playstyles, reducing the entire battlefield to a monotonous, one-dimensional experience.
If the next update remains like this, I will abandon this game for good!
Scouts with their massive vision see everything, while slow-moving armies are picked apart one by one by heavy cavalry using brute force. Everything—every villager, even the entire nation—is forced to kneel before the might of 100 heavy cavalry.
The issue here seems to be you think 60 spearmen would beat 100 knights. Spearmen trade cost efficiently vs heavy cavalry but 1v1 they will lose because they are much cheaper.
It’s your army worth 4800 resources vs an army of cavalry worth 24000. You’d need like150 spearmen to win the fight and that would still cost much less than the 100 knights.
I would say I have seen very similar army unit mixes of mass cavalry. Camels, spears, crossbow do counter. A mix of spear and crossbow generally does the trick with them. Do wall to help prevent that raiding or rapidly build a wall of they get behind your lines to prevent how much access they get or to help corner them? I don’t know about the extra population spot but maybe a cost increase or damage decrease to accommodate for that?
Increasing the cavalry population isn’t the solution.
In Age of Empires 3, they implemented it this way, and it’s worse: To balance the cavalry with its double population, it’s “Ultra-Broken,” to the point where its supposed natural counter, the “Pikeman,” is practically useless, even in mass.
In fact, even with 3 population, in AoE3 cavalry is also amassed, to insane levels, to the point where some post-Imperial armies consist of spawning hordes of a single unit (British Hussar Horde, French Cuirassier Horde, Spanish Lancer Horde, Mexican Chinaco Horde).
I would also criticize the fact that in Age of Empires 3, the so-called Pikemen don’t have enough melee range to be called Pikemen; they don’t use real pikes, they don’t even have bonuses for fighting together like pikemen, and they can’t stop cavalry charges.
I truly love Age of Empires 4, and it makes me realize how inferior the other Age of Empires games are in some mechanics.
I have near-infinite resources, but I am completely powerless against a massive army of 100 heavy cavalry.24,000 resources feels incredibly insufficient to me.One hundred villagers have a far greater economic value than 100 heavy cavalry. So, why do these 100 villagers get slaughtered as if they were nothing but air when faced with the cavalry?
Thats the reason Cavalry was OP in middle ages. So its a good representation.
But yeah, “is a game”, and a tactical RTS, so it should have true counters to some supposed invencible formations, in this case mass heavy cavalry.
Well, depending of the civ there are countermeasures, but generally those are ISLAMIC civs, LoL!
Ottomans: Mass Ribauldequin and Janissaries.
Delhi: Mass War elephatns
Abba: Mass Camel Archers or Camel Rider
Ayyubid: Mass Dessert Riders
From the European Civs, at least Eng and Lancaster has Ribauldequins to counter mass Melee arrmies, but this not neccesarelly is a counter but a complement, because its insane cost (900 cc).
Anyways, europeans civs compensate it with havin a Great Food Economy: Farms (Eng), Manors (LAN), Prelates (HRE), Hunt Prince (RUS)
So they can make 9999 spearman before any French player make 99 Knights, make Ribaulds or even more Knights.
Also, they have better Spearmans (+40% attack speed Network of Castles, +15% damage Prelate Aura, Armor Piercing and Extra Bonus Damage of Lancaster)
Technically, if the enemy could mass 99 knight (23740 converted cost), you could have done 28 Ribaulds (23800 cc.)
Their bonus attack just right now is very fine aggainst cavalry in imperial (+28)
Also, their bonus aggainst Cav is improved with some civs (JAP nagari yari: +15%, LAN tactics: +20%), if not is attack (JAP yari:+2, Sengoku :+2, Prelates:+15%)
They have increased aggainst Elephants, which is good.
They should also increased the bonus aggainst Camels Units too, because just right now, Camel Riders are extremely OP aggainst Heavy Cavalry, but also aggainst Spearman, so ¿Which is their counter? if they are good aggainst cavalry, archers, men-at-arms, spearmasn and everything ¿How to balance it?
Improve the Bonus Damage of Spearmans aggainst Light Camels units
I propose make spearman has a bonus aggains “Light armor camels” unit, in that way they still has the same bonus aggainst Camel Lancer, but more aggainst the hordes of Ayyubid Dessert Rider and Abba Post-Imperial Camel Riders.
Heavy Mounted Knights (Knights) are far too cost-effective. We can analyze the reasons for their cheapness from multiple angles:
Shared Resources for Easy Allocation: The resources required to produce them (Food and Gold) are the same as those needed to advance to the next Age and research key technologies. Even Villagers cost Food. This means you can allocate your economy with extreme efficiency: just 3-4 Villagers on Wood, and the rest on Food and Gold. With this setup, you can simultaneously produce Knights, advance to the next Age, research upgrades, and maintain Villager production without any significant economic friction.
Early Game Production and Pressure: Powerful cavalry civilizations can produce them starting in Age II. This means the opponent’s economy is under pressure from the very beginning of the mid-game. As a result, the opponent’s economy falls further and further behind, forcing them to attempt a comeback from a position of already crippled economic disadvantage.
Overwhelming Versatility and Power: Spearmen are slow and can only defend static locations. In the best-case scenario, producing spearmen might allow you to barely defend your own base and villagers. However, your teammates will suffer. If the enemy team concentrates their Knights from all four players on a single target, they can wipe out that player’s Villager line completely. Therefore, in 4v4, defense in Age II is practically impossible. “Spearmen cannot defend your allies.”
Counters Arrive Too Late: The Handcannonner (a powerful anti-cavalry gunpowder unit) requires Age IV. Long before Age IV can be reached, the economy has already been crippled by the constant Knight pressure.
Counters are Themselves Countered: The Handcannonner is vulnerable to ranged units like the Mongol Mangudai and other Horse Archers. An army composed of a mix of Heavy Knights and Horse Archers is devastating. From Age II, they use Horse Archers and Knights to pick off Villagers. If you produce Spearmen to counter the Knights, you become extremely vulnerable to the Horse Archers. As mentioned in point 3, producing only Spearmen cannot defend against Knights, and it is even less effective against Horse Archers. By the time you reach Age IV, your Handcannoneers are vulnerable to the enemy’s Horse Archers. Furthermore, with a collapsed economy, you cannot afford to produce Handcannoneers nor can you fight the ever-growing cavalry army, because your economy was stifled so severely back in Age II that you never recovered.
If you spend the same resources on producing knights as you do on advancing to the next age, you can’t advance easily, since you’re constantly producing knights, and therefore your reserves never increase enough to do so.
That’s why many French players don’t advance to the Castle Age (iii) until very late, or prefer to focus all their efforts on the Feudal Age rushes.
Also, this is why in 1v1, a “Fast Castle” or economic boom is preferred against the French or Rus’, to have the technological and economic advantage of the Castle Age against them.
In teams, it’s more complex, because if you’re playing a Cavalry civilization, you have the responsibility to raid or defend your team until they advance to the Castle Age, or go in a Feudal Rush together, instead of an economic boom. And if you don’t take on that responsibility, well, you also give your opponent the opportunity to do the same.
ALL civilizations have some kind of extra unit in the Feudal Age.
In some, it’s a Knight (French, Rus), in others it’s heavy infantry (HRE, ZhuXi, ENG), in others it’s monks (HRE, Ayyubid, Delhi); each of these can create devastating combos.
The problem is that people often don’t know how to counter cavalry rushes. To do this, build spearmen and towers to protect your gold, and if possible, build “fast castles” to produce Crossbowmen or the best anti-cavalry units if you’re playing an anti-cavalry civilization: Janissaries, Elephants, Camels.
It’s a common mistake when starting out in 4v4 to believe that using Spearman is a good strategy against Cavalry. It isn’t.
And the worst part is when all 4 players start making Barracks and using Spearman simply because there’s an enemy French or Mongol, discarding any real build they had prepared for other situations.
To avoid raids, ideally each team should have at least one cavalry civ on the team, and their role should be:
A) “Defend the team from enemy cavalry”
B) “Raid the enemy who is raiding.”
While that, the rest of the team have to advance to Castle Age, and make their own Anticavalry units or OP combos (Zhuge-nu combo), Crossbowmans or Heavy Cavalry Combos.
In theory, playing cavalry civs is more optimal in open maps, where the enemy is far away, and the optimas way to rush is making horsemans or early Knights.
In Close maps where the enemy is very close, you can have more variety in your teams, but ideally you should still have at least one cavalry civilization to provide support and sustain while the rest of your team uses Eco Boom, Fast Castle, or steals map relics.
In 3v3 and 4v4 team games, more experienced players know that every team should have at least three types of civilizations:
Economic Boom (LAN, OftD, ENG, Abbasid, HRE)
Anti-cavalry (Ayyubid, Delhi, Abba, Ottomans)
Cavalry Rusher (French/Jeanne, Rus, Mongol)
Recently, with the Tughlaq Healer Elephant, born a new type of optimal rusher:
The infantry Rusher (10 spearman+5 Healer Elephants).
Handcannoner ceased to be a counter to cavalry in season 9.
Aggain, Handcannoner ceased to be a counter to Cavalry in Season 9.
Horse Archers are different from Knights. In this case, for Feudal and Castle Age, you need ANOTHER Archer civ to counter them, or simply accumulate Foot Archers and upgrade them to counter them. If not, Rush them 3vs1 the mongol to don´t let go to Imperial Age.
In Post-Imperial, Mangudai combos can be defeated with 90 Rangers, or 90 Longbowmen, or Zhugenus + 10 Bee Nests. For cavalry civs, you have to have a bunch of 50 Knights/Horsemen + 8 Mangonels and kill them with anti-range siege superiority.
As a Chinese streamer with a high ranked standing and experience across every game version, my understanding of the meta is undeniable. If you believe that crossbowmen are the optimal counter to knights in 4v4, you are mistaken.
You need to understand that the true best counter to knights is walls. However, asserting that crossbowmen are the answer is as flawed as saying walls are—because in the brutal reality of a 4v4 match against coordinated knight pressure, you often cannot afford to build either.
The most critical flaw in the “crossbow” solution is that they are hard-countered by horse archers like the Mongol Mangudai! This is a fatal vulnerability. The moment your crossbow mass is caught and decimated by these units, the game is effectively over—the consequences are catastrophic.
The situation would be marginally better if crossbowmen had a movement speed comparable to archers, but even that would not solve the core issue.
Everything you’ve described are special civilization units, and they are almost all cavalry themselves. Furthermore, you must understand that I am solo-queueing into matches with random teammates. If I had even one reliable partner, I would be nearly invincible. But I don’t—I have no reliable allies.
I play as the English. My goal is to become an unstoppable player, the kind that becomes a renowned streamer, by mastering every game mechanic. You must realize that those powerful cavalry civilizations themselves have other strong units to complement their knights.
The distance of the large forest woodline from the Town Center is a direct indicator of knight strength. Here is the death spiral I face:
Enemy Player A’s knights pressure me, forcing me to invest in Barracks and produce Spearmen.
Then, Enemy Player B arrives with a mass of Mongol Mangudai, which effortlessly wipe out my now-committed Spearmen.
With my counter-unit gone, the knights re-establish control over my woodline.
With no wood, I cannot produce more military buildings, archery ranges, or farms. My economy and military production are strangled simultaneously.
Once this sequence begins, the game is almost certainly lost.
The strength of knights does not lie in their ability to instantly defeat you in a head-on fight. Their victory is secured when they reach a mass of 100. Before that, in the early and mid-game, these knights accomplish three critical objectives:
They prevent you from aging up.
They destroy your opportunity to build a proper army.
They force you into a reactive and ultimately incorrect strategic path.
The most crucial point is: You cannot go on the offensive. You might think you can assemble a force to crush them, but you are wrong. Their strategy is systematic:
First, they target and kill your villagers, crippling your economy at its source.
Second, they pick off any reinforcing troops you try to produce, ensuring you can never build a critical mass.
Finally, if all else fails, they simply fall back, gather their 100 elite knights, and use this unstoppable horde to trample any army composition you might have managed to assemble.
Sometimes cavalry raids stops with enough stone walls, yeah, but i didn´t say is the definitive solution, because even stopped, the cavalry still exist, you only delayed the battle with them building the walls.
The knight counter, due to price difference, are crossbowmen. However, you need to know how to micro-create, position them well, and have other units that act as a meat shield for the counter to work effectively, usually Spearmen.
In 4v4, if you’re fighting against three civilizations using cavalry, you obviously aren’t going to expect to go against them alone. That’s what coordinated team defense is for, and if it’s lacking, it’s not the cavalry’s fault; it’s the fault of choosing poor civ coordination on the team.
The mechanic of making archers constantly turn around to fire isn’t very realistic, and I don’t think it’s better to make it worse by giving them even more speed. They’re not horse archers.
Look, if you’re going to play with randoms, you have to consider one thing:
You can’t play with just one civ and expect everything to go smoothly every time.
At least for 3v3 or 4v4, having the team choose good civ compositions is ideal for facing any challenge, especially considering the map. And this is achieved if you learn to play with more than one civ.
If, for example, 3 players want to play English on the same team, and none of them want to change civs, then they have a bad civ composition, especially if the enemy chooses a more balanced composition, say a Cavalry Civ + Late Game Civ + Relic C Picker.
Generally, each civ has its strengths and can vary its strategies for team play, but you can’t expect them to be good at everything.
In the case of the English, they are a great defensive civilization, anti-rush, archer rusher, and have a 2TC/3TC eco-boom. They also have a fast castle (a friend of mine knows how to do it), but they are not a cavalry civilization.
The same goes for the French; they are not an infantry civilization. The expectation is that when you play as a team, you produce units or develop strategies to compensate for allies’ weaknesses or to create lethal combos.
This is simply a consequence of the game being asymmetrical.
I disagree. If an enemy manages to build up 100 knights, it’s because you let them create an Eco-Boom. Every civilization has a devastatingly overpowered combo if you allow them to create an Eco-Boom.
There are combos of 30 elephants, 100 Zhuge-nus, and 90 Camel Archers that are quite frightening, but each one has its own way of being countered. In some cases, you can’t expect a single army to do all the work; sometimes you have to send waves.
In a recent game, even though I reached a population of 200 and had a large army of knights, I was defeated because the enemy insisted on fielding around 80 spearmen and wiped out my cavalry with infantry and crossbowmen. Besides, they had a contingent of their own knights ready to wipe me out once they destroyed my army.
Let me reiterate: never attempt to rely solely on unit counters against knights or horse archers. Only walls can truly withstand cavalry forces.
The greatest strength of knights and horse archers lies in their rapid mobility. When opponents realize they cannot defeat your main army, they can simply bypass your military forces and focus entirely on eliminating your villagers and crushing your economy. If you produce Beehive Cannons, you’ll be unable to protect your villagers effectively. Without any walls or palisades, you possess no means to safeguard your villagers unless you field an equivalent force of knights or horse archers yourself.
Furthermore, you might suggest having at least one player select a cavalry civilization to counter enemy knights with their own cavalry. This approach is flawed. When facing two or more enemy cavalry civilizations, they will immediately focus and overwhelm that single player in the Feudal Age through numerical superiority. This occurs because cavalry civilizations themselves are inherently vulnerable to stronger cavalry counterparts.
This is precisely why I maintain that camel riders represent a superior form of knight. Both camel cavalry and horse archers are high-mobility units - they simply represent alternative forms of cavalry.
“Do not attempt to use other unit types to counter knights. Nor should you try to use a small number of knights against a massive swarm of them. Therefore, the endgame of this title boils down to mass-producing knights (including horse archers).”