Idk whether if it would break the balance
My thought is that Asian can pay an amount of resource to rebuild the wonder
(like 1000food, wood, coin, I dunno how to calculate a precise number)
as there are some wonders are critical to the civ like Toshogu
should this ability need to be designed?
Idk whether if it would break the balance
Just a casual idea… Perhaps the wonder rickshaw can be trained at TC at the price of 2000 wood and 2000 coin. The wonder rickshaw can rebuild a wonder which has been destroyed or deleted. The card “Advanced Wonders” can also make the cost of wonder rickshaw down.
Btw, I hope that the wonder mechanics can eventually be replaced with other ways.
For example, Toshogu Shrine could be changed to shipping 2 shrine rickshaws, shrine build limit +2, and to upgrading shrines to advanced shrines. Advanced shrines will generate more resources than ordinary shrines, which maintains the original effect of Toshogu Shrine.
The wonders make completely no sense. The British do not build Westminster Abbey in Boston, and the French do not build Notre Dame in Quebec. Likewise, Asians will not build those specific wonders in the New World that should only be located in their homeland. This is as absurd as letting Lakotas mine.
maybe no need to do that
i mean, the balance of Asian are always based on the nonrenewable wonders, and achieved a good results–at least not bed. So it’s no need to do that.
what’s more, to a certain extent, the wonders are are against factories in Europe. if Asian can rebuild their wonders, how about factories?
Nah they arent exactly competing for the same thing. uninterrupted infinite wood supply cant be replaced by any other wonder (except a very specific case of china tower) meanwhile every civ have factories. so . … they certainly aren’t against the factory. They are more cojmpeting against the age up mechanincs of other civs
At first i was for such an idea, but then i realized sometimes the game has to end. It would be very difficult to break a laming Asian civ if wonders were rebuilding.
First, the reason of why the Wonders (and similar buildings) exist in this game is because the non-European civilizations play as if they are locals in the lands of the map, in a part of its territory (even if is not historically correct). This can be seen in the dialogs of the AI personalities, the names of the cards, and many mechanics like the Japanese Isolationism. The wonders are a representation of the sacred buildings that necessarily exist in their lands. Instead, Europeans are treated more like foreign colonizers, in terms of features and mechanics.
Regarding this topic, the European civs have 2 buildings than cannot be reconstructed (the 2 factories) but the Asian civs have 4 (the Wonders, in imperial Age) (Also the Japanese have the dojos).
My proposal is that some Wonders should have the possibility of being reconstructed and some others not, that depends on the characteristics of the Wonder. A Wonder that is rebuilt don’t give the age up bonus, only the bonuses of being held.
Examples of Wonder that can be rebuilt in my opinion:
Chinese: Confucian Academy (The only way to generate Flying Crows), Temple of Heaven (to heal injured units)
Indians: Agra Fort (Because is a Fort), Charminar Gate (The only way to Train Mansabdar units)
Japanese: Golden Pavilion (Because the buffs), Shogunate (to retrain Daimyo)
(I leave out the Wonders that generate resources like a factory)
When a Wonder that can be reconstructed is built, now it can appear in the villager card UI, as a normal building that a villager can build, with a fixed price that depends on the Wonder, and a limit of 1 (the same as the Church, Capitol, etc.).
Very far-fetched excuse. How do you explain that when the Indians’ home city already has a Taj Mahal, the player can build a second one in the game? Why can players build his grave when Tokugawa Ieyasu can be a living unit?
Europeans also have many characteristics that come from the motherland, and Africans, Americans and Mexicans do not build Biete Amanuel, White House, National Palace, etc.
Asians, Africans, Native Americans, US and Mexicans may not be the so-called “colonizers”, but they are definitely outlanders who go to other places to develop new towns and expand new territories. Even within their traditional borders, new towns are built on unexplored land, so there should be no those temples, palaces, statues or landmarks that already exist elsewhere in the country.
The consulate in the new town also determines allies based on the foreign policy of the entire empire. When the motherland decides on isolationism, the new territories as empires also follow the motherland’s policies, and that’s it.
As a native Asian, I can’t help but suspect that the wonder mechanics are based on stereotypes. The original developers were too eager to incorporate historical wonders like the Temple of Heaven, the Taj Mahal, etc. into the game, rather than any careful cultural considerations.
They should certainly not be rebuildable.
nah, strelets should be 0.75 population on age v
no. this is the only real way to stop japan’s stupidity in late age 5
To be fair, all of them are toxic in late game and they only thing making them OK is the fact that wonders can be petarded/sniped in some way. Taking that away is a very scary concept.
It is obvious that the Wonders are allegoric/symbolic representations of important/sacred buildings in a town of an Asian civilization. The developers choose some very important constructions to represent that. That’s not the real Taj Mahal, it is a token building who depicts an important building in a city/town.
I think you just don’t like some stereotypes applied to the Asian civs, but all the civilizations are based in stereotypes because they are symbolic representations, this is a game, and is impossible to deliver all the details.
Please, no sophistry. The Big Buddha is located in Kamakura, could not possibly in Florida. The Porcelain Tower is located in Nanjing, could not possibly in the Yukon. The Taj Mahal is located in Agra, could not possibly in the Pepper Coast. It goes without saying that making wonders appear in-game as buildable structures is a very intuitive mistake, without any culturally plausible explanation.
Some things are acceptable, while others are clearly unacceptable because they are more serious and obvious. Asian Wonders and Monk Heroes are the equivalent of letting the Lakota people mine gold, very intuitive, rough, and ridiculous designs. Since this is a game based on history and culture, it should be responsible for following the real history and culture to some extent.
There will definitely be better alternatives to keep these designs’ entertaining and at the same time reduce stereotypes without sticking to these mistakes. You can create some non-specific buildings to replace those specific wonders, such as Frontier Town instead of Summer Palace, Trade Workshop instead of Porcelain Tower, Tenshu instead of Shogunate, Forge instead of Golden Pavilion, Qila instead of Agra Fort, etc. For some abilities, it can even be directly granted to the civ or owned by the hero after adjustment, instead of using a building as a container. There is no reason why it should be a wonder, and it is even more reasonable to use a non-wonder.
I am of the opinion that they don’t need to be rebuildable, i’m not completely against it, but i do think is not necessary and i would prefer that they cannot be rebuildable, but toxic? Why toxic? I never saw them as toxic, how or in what way?
People dont like cease fire, mansabdars or daymios.
Literally I won a TREATY match 10min after battle begins cause ceasing fire (not in his base yet) LOL
I like many of those ideas. It’s a better option to replace the Wonders to a more general big building that does the same, because it’s more respectful and have more sense. In some cases, it’s just a name change.
Thanks very much.
Since I have been unable to edit the article, I cannot attach hyperlinks to the material one by one.
You are welcome to google the terms you are interested in to learn more about their meanings.
Or reply directly to the thread and I will answer.
Hopefully one day, Asian civilizations will have a chance to be corrected.
If done well, I’m even willing to pay for it.
Wonders should not be rebuildable unless factories and forts can as well. (might make forts viable for TR, and the agra for india)
But basically they should not be at all.
But lets think about this… there is a lot of laming to try to snipe these key buildings which changes the meta so that instead of fighting people just try running tactics. If these buildings were rebuild able it would be too costly and risky to make runs on bases because there is no pay off to get that factory or dymo train time taken away… so then people would actually have to battle for the center and win with draining an opponent or capturing the base entirely. That is really the only good I could see coming out of it… to de-centivize boxes and factory raids. It would really change so much
I still think it would not be a good change.
Also inspiration. I’m not saying they are OP, just annoying to deal with. So sniping wonders is a legit strategy that shouldn’t be removed.
Also the aggra fort can be disturbing during the mid game with sepoy spam.
To me, Asian wonders should be able to be rebuilt for a cost of 4000 gold and food. I think the Asian civilizations wonder system could be revamped a bit if instead of having to build them with villagers, the town center gave us a cart. wonder building.