Should regional techs be a thing?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

The model of covering overlap in military with regional units was a pretty good one. Extending that, it might be worthwhile to cover technology overlap.

We have UT’s for age 3 and 4 at the castle, so maybe something for age 2 or 1 with the tech located at its relevant building.

No clue what the costs could be tho.

Sample:

Western Europe:
Infantry shields - +10 hp for barracks units(age 2 at barracks)

Central Europe:
Mountaineers - buildings have +3 LoS (age 1 at outpost)

Eastern Europe:
Hill Forts - palisades have +100 hp (age 1 at palisade gate)

Southern Europe:
Gladius - milia line +3 vs spearline (age 2 at barracks)

*North Africa (Berbers):
Rawhide shields - Scout line has +1 melee armor (age 2 at stable)

*West Africa (Malians):
Adobe architecture - build speed of villagers +10% (age 1 at mining camp)

*East Africa (Ethiopians):
Poisoned arrows - archers and skirmishers +1 vs scout line (age 2 at archery range)

West Asian (Middle east):
Waterworks - Farms reseed in 5 seconds (age 1 at mill)

Central Asian:
Migration - Animals do not decay (age 1 at mill)

South Asian:
Crucibles - Barrack and stable upgrade cost reduced by 33% (age 2 at blacksmith)

Southeast Asian:
Butted mail - replaces loom, with an additional +1 melee armor (age 1 town center)

East Asian:
Casting - Barrack and stable train time reduced by 20% (age 2 at blacksmith)

*The in-game region is just africa. Division are only futureproofing.

2 Likes
2

My idea for an Avatar: The Last Airbender AoE2 clone featured shared bonuses for all the city-states with the same architecture set, as their elemental theme was common. For example, Water Tribes would have some kind of ship bonus, Fire Nation cities would have some kind of forging bonus, etc. Perhaps AoE2 could do something similar to really spice things up.

3

Thats the plan right here, yea. Notice that the regions are divvied by their current architecture set.

For my part, I made my suggestions land based and for early ages - better to have something small and see it used than go fancy and impractical.

4

A nod to cheap chainmail imitation that now comes from countries in that area ?

(butted mail is really weak compared to riveted mail, you can tear it apart by hand…)

5

The more civilizations are added, the more techs and units will inevitably be required to keep each civilization as distinct as possible.

Otherwise, not only will the new civilizations end up feeling similar to existing ones, but they will also dilute the uniqueness of the older civilizations. And there are already civilizations that are very similar to each other.

So yeah, a Feudal Age regional tech could be a good idea.

6

You got it. Iirc southeast asia was pretty much the only place that actually used it in any capacity - all else used some form of riveted mail.

The fact that its so weak is why its took the place of cloth armor, with the +1 melee is for being worthless against all but sword slashes…from one handers.

1 Like
7

The idea is good but techs should feel unique for their region. The first one for example, infantry shields… shields are quite universal for infantry, it’s faster to name cultures who did not use any.

I’d rather lean into cultural/religious traits for unique techs, unless it’s really a technology that was only found in that part of the world or indeed to adapt to the local climate. And it wouldn’t have to follow architectural styles, rather which civ could fit what civ.

For example quite a lot of european civs could have a civ linked with feudalism.

Outpost… oh right, that thing exists :upside_down_face: this would make CE civs the only civs who need building one.

8

I assume SEA switched to riveted mail once they improved their production methods.

Using it as clothing… given how expensive iron was to produce before the industrial revolution and that SEA was relatively underdevelopped, I don’t think butted mail should go to villagers. I have a better idea : butted mail added in the blacksmith feudal age :

  • costs 75 food
  • increases infantry melee armour by +1
  • decreases the cost & effect of infantry mail armour by 75 food
    Unique change to infantry mail armour :
  • makes butted mail unavailable (if not researched), cancels its effect (if researched)

So it gives you the option of researching part of the castle age armour tech early, with overall no extra cost. And as you switch to proper mail, butted mail gets ditched.

On second thought, tailoring those techs like that, to give an early-game boost that gets canceled at some point, could be a design idea, to spice up the early game without affecting late-game balance.

9

Isn’t regional tech basically what things like Parthian tactics are?

10

The idea is good but techs should feel unique for their region. The first one for example, infantry shields… shields are quite universal for infantry, it’s faster to name cultures who did not use any.

With the dark age being right after the fall of the WRE, western europe had celts, rome leftovers (guals?), and at least 3 kind of germanic poeples. Looking at all of them in the late 5th century the common theme that stood out was the use of heavy infantry as the core of the military force.

Given the geography, melee infantry would be the remain the core of western armies in the future too - hence enhancing the infantry to hint at all that.

Of course, that apples to most of central europe too, but eh, abstractions for the sake of the game.

In addition to cultural traits, I was also trying to aim for an early tech that reflected the specific culture of the time period of age1/2.

So if I have it right, you’re cutting the infantry armor upgrade in half - giving the melee component first and the ranged component later with the normal blacksmith upgrade. Seems cool to me, but with might wanna also split the time between the two as well. I assume it’ll still be an age 1 tech - will it move to the barracks?

There’s a possibility it might just be overshadowed by simply waiting for age 2 and just taking the normal upgrade, but thats a judgement call I suppose. Bonus, they first armor upgrade is scale armor - which is what butted mail was ditched for.

Part of me still likes the idea of a unique, persistent effect, so consider;

Southeast Asians:
Bamboo spears - spearmen cost 5 less wood and train 10% faster.

Horse archers interacted and influenced too many regions to lock it to a single one tho. The origin was central asia, but was adopted between eastern europe and far east asia - the huns would have to have it too. Name aside, mounted archer techs should be considered as global as mail.

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11

Yes, absolutely. Proposed this for Camel and Elephant units long ago.

12

Forgot about the time, indeed split it too like the cost.

I see it as a age 2 tech on top of the regular one, after all you normally need padding under mail. Overall it indeed gives the option to get the melee part now and no matter if you take it or not, it will have cost the same.

So in feudal you can get +2/+1 instead of the regular +1/+1, and in castle age after the upgrade you’re back to the regular +2/+2

That would make Burmese halbs quite scary.