Should Samurai be overhauled/changed?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Original goal of Samurai was not to counter Unique Units. In fact it was designed to switch between ranged and melee mode. Only reason it was removed due to complicity of UI.
Today, Samurai’s original goal is to counter UUs as instructed but you will never see it using against it. Only time they fill their original goal are during Goth spam to some extent. But you will you will prefer civs’ generic unit to counter unique units at the end of the day. It’s not fulfilling as much as original goal as people would expect. So what’s your thought in this?

  • Make Samurai to a switch between melee and ranged mode like Ratha as originally was intended.
  • Nah, keep it as it is now. Maybe do balance change.

0 voters

2 Likes
2

I agree Samurai needs buff, but switching between meele/ranged is not good idea on infantry unit, unless you want them to gain Archer Armor class.
Buff them otherwise.

3

I think they can keep their melee armor and slightly less range(-1 range than xbows?) or less damage? They get hard countered by Knights at the end of the day. If that’s what they are originally intended.
Keeping Archer armor doesn’t look that much of bad deal either. You got good melee at close and doing nice archer role at distance, But you will look for strong counter anyway. Skirmisher can play this job.

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4

making it swap would basically mean you’d always keep it in archer mode. very rarely would you need melee mode.

2 Likes
5

okay and what about civs that don’t have good knights? what do they do?

6

Doesn’t look bad deal to me. Samurais indeed were known for archery historically. You have Spearman and buildings to fight. Infantries are good raiding unit if you spam them to enemy base.

Infantry still dies to weakest of Knights. Devs have been buffing them forever yet they always feel very lacky.

7

except you are taking an infantry uu on an infantry civ and forcing it into a situation where it will never be used as infantry again. i see a problem with that.

and so i go samurai (ranged mode) + halbs and wreck your day.

8

I think Samurai are in a good place.
the only issue they have is that we rarely see them because when they counter units they counter so well, the unit doesn’t even get made. nobody will make woads, teutonic knights or berserks against japanese unless they are already super far ahead

9

Vikings/Celts and here Japanese are primarily infantry civ but you see people going Archer or Knights option. Also this buff is not making good vs UUs btw.

Isn’t it like too much eco to invest? Skirmisher/Hand Canon/Knight combo can kite fairly easily. Castle to mass is another issue.

10

how is giving them range not going to make them better vs UU? furthermore the point was you’re taking INFANTRY options away from INFANTRY civs and forcing them further into ranged or knights. look at Vikings where they went the opposite.

if you were going skirmisher/knight/hc why would i be going for a low range unit that has bonus vs UU over just arb + halb?

11

Samurais just feel very generic. In most case, they are used as a replacement to Swordsman. Because, swordsman are too hard to tech into. That is just raiding or niche role. Which swordsman in general suffer.

1 Like
12

No need to make it complicated. I’m just saying currently as instructed bonus damage vs UUs is not fulfilling their true purpose. Just switch it something like Ratha but as foot unit. That way, Samurai can have bigger role as it is now. They can have pierce armor instead of melee armor now. Take away bonus damage vs UUs.

It can be tweaked or something with balance changes. Maybe keep it similar with range units. Many units as we know of faced drastic balance changes. It won’t be surprising to see Ratha which is super new unit facing new balance change in upcoming patches. Point is, even Ratha we know of is hardly used as melee units in competitive scene.

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13

I think he wants to remove that completely and basically make them foot version of Ratha.

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14

yeah pretty much this

15

It is nice to see that Samurai can counter ranged UU. I think it should be like slinger with 4 base pierce dmg+10 bonus atk against UU in ranged mode. It shouldnt be shooting arrows all the time. Keep the current stats for melee mode. Besides, it is a bit strange that suddenly skirmisher counter it well. Samurai is already countered by knight and xbow.

16

Yeah, samurai its weird. They counter UU, but if i know mt opponent its japanese o will NOT ise my UU.(With exeptions)

I would like the switch mechanic between mele/ranged (there is now an unit that does that).

And MAYBE keep some extra damage to other UU.

1 Like
17

Biased poll is biased. So I refuse to vote

Samurai don’t need a complete and utter overhaul, they just need a buff.

I would go as radical as reduce food cost from 60f to 50f. Increase PA from 1 to 2.

UU infantry like ghulams, berserks, and garden gnomes (obuch) set the bar pretty high, so there’s enough room to buff the samurai

18

My bad. I mean Infantry UUs got buffed few patches ago. Even so most aren’t doing their good job as expected. Especially the way they work. Didn’t crossed my mind to buff them. 11
Lemme rename 2nd option.
Edit: Removed votes altogether. smh

19

yeah I have suggested both them as well. Although I want only one of them, not both.

3 Likes
20

They are good now after the melee units buff.