Hello everyone I recently looked a bit at the aoe2 stats and found out how different Sicillian winrates are at different ratings they appear to be terrible at higher elos with a 42 percent winrate and relativly domminant at lower elos with a 56 percent winrate do you think that they should be changed a bit and if yes how or if the devs should just leave them be
I think they’re ok, they just need Hussar or an eco bonus. Or the last archer armour to make Arbalest more tanky
2 Likes
I preferred the Civ back when it had 50% bonus damage resistance and no Hauberk, which has min-maxed the Civ into being pure Knight gameplay rather than a all-rounder with an aggressive building focus that complicated usual counter-compositions.
If I were to have my way I’d fully restore the old resistance bonus, give them HCs and Ring Archer Armor, give access to Watch Towers up to Guard upgrade (similarly to how Bulgarians still have Castles alongside Kreposts), have Donjons function as an Age-up requirement building (if not already the case), replace Hauberk with either a generalist minor military buff or significant building or economic buff (Not Scutage, it ###### ### and it’s good it was replaced).
Drastic changes, but what can I say I dislike the current direction of Sicillians
6 Likes
Non-elite serjeant stats should get nerfed, the civ’s economy or the bonus damage resistance should get buffed.
2 Likes
ye that would probably help them maybe exspand there farms bonus to farms without upgrades
Give them HandCannons I think Elite Searjeants are supposed to be their answer to infantry.
I think the civ should be renamed to Normans and given the Western European architecture, including a new Castle and Wonder.
I think Sicilian farmers should generate a trickle of wood instead of current farm bonus. This would kick in slightly earlier than their current bonus and help them in a part of the game where they really need help.
I agree with these, but I am not sure what to do for the Imp UT. Maybe Hauberk should only give pierce armor so enemy cav can still stand up to them?
Sicilians are reversed Chinese now. Not even old Goths had this type of opposite polarization.
that sums it kinda up
It should have all of its nerfs reverted and be given to another Civ, if I had to choose it would be Burmese bundled with Howdah, I would then also fully revert old Manipuri Cavalry to combine the Pierce with Anti-Building damage. Or I would make a new Civ those two bonuses with appropriate names
But realistically it shouldn’t be with Sicillians as the bonus damage resistance makes it so that brute force is one of the best solutions to Sicilian units, but this bonus removes that as an option from a huge swath of Ranged units. Which has resulted in the current pure Knight direction of Sicillians I dislike now that every other human Sicillian unit has taken a hefty nerf they didn’t deserve
3 Likes
They need imho:
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bonus damage reduction 30%/40%/50% (feudal, Castle, imp)
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elite serjeants +1 attack or +2/3 bonus vs infantry (sicilians have no thumb ring nor HC to counter strong infantry)
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possibly make their eco bonus easier to achieved and faster. Like “farms last 33/40/50% longer” (would need to do the math on this but basically make the bonus immediate and not requirong farm upgrades, and ready from dark age even)
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First crusade possibly changes to something for serjeants and infantry in general, and their donjons. Like “donjons (or fortifications in general) and infantry receive +1/+1 armor” ans reduce serjeants armor accordingly if needed for elite, to acconodate ab offebsive buff for them (the +1 attack listed above or more).
as of now they are and infantry civ with the smallest bonus to infantry ( less bonus damage which little to no unit do, and those that do, the reduction don’t matter in practice)
The only reasonnthis bonus had to be changed is imperial age lol
No it was changed because It was tough too strong in combination with hauberk. But then they nerfed both hauberk and the damage reduction, which now result in sicilians lacking a powerunit/wincondition in late game
The damage reduction was always overstated. In practice sicilians were never, even at their supposed “peak”, as strong as say khmer or any other Atier civ in tournaments.
The cost increase of hauberk was more then enough, the damage reduction nerf came when sicilians were already striggling in wintate and never to be seen in tournament. It was an unneeded change
Well, you’re getting your Sicilians buff in next patch. TBH, I don’t like the fact that they didn’t nerf YouPudding strategy at all, rather just plain buff that strategy. But at least it will make pros using them more.
Very meager buff that would not change their playrate or winrate most probably i’m afraid
Also youpudding strategy is basically dead since months, It was a thing for some week just because It was not expected, then everyone figured it wasn’t that good…
Sicilians
- Castles built 50% faster → Fortifications built 50% faster
- Donjon build time 90s → 125s (83s after bonus)
- Donjons cost 75w 175s → 50w 175s
Won’t change their abilities to drop castles. Slightly improves their ability to build Donjans (a bit faster, and lower wood cost which keeps them on par with the general tower change). Would improve their abilities to build stone walls/palisades (which is probably where the biggest improvement would be - building walls faster means less villager build time, which means more time to gather resources and may mean the difference between a wall finishing before an opponent arrives and a wall not finishing at all). Also would help with laming strategies (walling in an opponent faster may mean the difference between a resource fully walled in and a resource partly open). Since full-walling a base is something players tend to do every game (on most maps), this would be a buff that affects most games. Don’t know how much of a difference it would make, but is the sort of small incremental change that I’d like to see.
I think a lot of pros disagree tbh
- The original antibonus damage should be restored.
- Farm upgrades affect existing farms and provide x% more food.
- Hawberk should be modified
When 50% combine with first crusade and hauberk, it will be unfun and oppressive for non-cav civs.
Now we have Savar, I would rather remove hauberk and restore 50% bonus dmg reduction. Add hussar to the tech tree instead.
1 Like