Should the devs do a complete overhaul of the Atlanteans so that a potential Roman civ be playable?

Age of Mythology Discussion
1

Pulling this from my thread I made on Reddit about 15 days ago but with slight modifications. Curious to hear your opinions here and I encourage you to read until the end as there will be a poll.

The original developers wanted to bring in the Romans in the game but somehow this plan failed. The Atlanteans were given some Roman units such as the Murmillo (a type of gladiator from Rome).

According to this:

^ The Romans had over 109 unique units to choose from.

And how about the different types of gladiators? List of Roman army unit types - Wikipedia

^ 25 different types of gladiators including the one we know, the Murillos.

This is a huge list with so many options to choose from!

This means that the current developers won’t have a headache in brainstorming new costumes, made up language, and architecture design because the Roman culture had already existed. To use ideas from history is like literally using cliffnotes. It’s just easier and it resonates with the people who are into history.

In addition, "The Atlanteans are a mythical civilization. However they do draw considerable inspiration from The Romans (whom were also originally considered for the expansion). This can be seen in the:

  • Destroyers are based on the Roman Legionary (circa 1st Century CE) and the Retiarius gladiator.
  • Fanatics are based on the Dimachaerus, whom was a Roman gladiation that fashioned two swords, daggers or knives.
  • Murmillos are based on the gladiator of the same name. Their interservice rivalry with the Destroyers is a reference to the fact Retiarii gladiators were pitted against a “secutor”, a gladiator armed similarly to the Murmillo.
  • The Turma gets its name from a Roman Equite squadron.
  • Contarii were Roman Cavalry Auxiliaries that wielded Lances.
  • Arcus comes from the Latin word meaning Bow.
  • Cheiroballistae are Roman Siege engines, essentially a large crossbow.
  • Onagers were Roman siege engines, more specifically a type of torsion catapult.
  • Fire Siphons and Fire Ships use the same technology that the Eastern Romans (or Byzantines) invented.
  • Citizens wear clothes that resemble the traditional clothing of Basque people, who were part of the Roman Empire.
  • Oracle comes from the Latin verb ƍrāre, “to speak”."

So why not?

TLDR;

→ The developers should recreate their own Atlantean buildings, costumes, language, structures, and basic military units but retain its current bestiaries.

→ Switch the existing Atlantean military units to the Roman civ since they are directly ripped from them.

Now you might be thinking, “Well, what about the Roman bestiaries then?”

@Azmac93 posted his/her list of Roman bestiaries that might work:

“1. Faun (later associated with the Greek satyr) Note: Satyrs have horse characteristics while the fauns have goat characteristics.
2. Lemures (something like shades)
3. Lares (guardian spirits. also referred to as some kind of minor deities)
4. Caladrius (magic bird associated with healing)
5. Striges (something like vampire owls)
6. Ophiolatrous (Bull-serpent-hybrid)
7. Caucus (Cacus) (fire-breathing giant)
8. Griffin (appearing in many mythologies, not only Roman, but would fit good for roman aesthetics I guess)
9. Harpeia (basically harpyie from Greek mythology but very prominent in roman mythology and not used for the Greeks in the game)
10. Lion-headed men (creatures associated with the sun god Mithras)
11. Calopus or Aeternae (a deer with saw-toothed horns)
12. Jaculus ( a flying snake with a spear-like head)
13. Pyrallis (a large fly born in flames and associated with fire)”

So is this enough to warrant a Roman civilization which played a key part of ancient history?

Should the Atlanteans be recreated from the ground up and retain its monsters but switch its military units to the Romans?
  • Yes.
  • No.

0 voters

3

I would keep all the Atlantian unit stats but change most of the designs.
Some units are kinda bad atm anyway, like the Katapeltes look like an anti Infantry unit but actually are a cavalry killer.

Some of my ideas

Murmillo

  • Is not based on a soldier so it’s fine
  • Fish theme fits Atlantis very will

Contarius

  • Reskinned to be North African Cavalry
  • Atlantians should have had colonies there
  • Probably the best source for Horses in their Empire

Arcus

  • Crete was popular for Archer
  • It’s a little far away from the Atlantic but the Minoans are maybe the civilisation that Plato got the idea from
  • Alternative Britannic Archers
  • Maybe give them shark teeth as arrow heads

Katapeltes

  • Completely redesigned to look like anti cavalry
  • Could be anything tbh.
  • Make it exotic looking!

Turma

  • Maybe also North Africa or Iberia as origin

Cheiroballista

  • Hard to change this unit
  • Maybe it should just stay that way

Destroyer

  • Need to keep a large shield because of their stats
  • Give them a more fantastic looking design like the Automaton

Fanatic

  • How about Obsidian Swords?
  • Mesoamerican looking unit

Fire Siphon

  • Looks fantastic enough and can stay that way

Onager

  • Generic enough I guess

Citizen

  • Looks fine
  • Doesn’t give off a Roman vibe tbh.

Oracle

  • Also not very Roman
  • A lot of cultures had Oracles so it fits perfectly well

Llama Caravan

  • Fits perfectly already
4

Oops, I read the question too fast, I thought you asked whether the Atlanteans should be removed from the game and be replaced with the Romans entirely, which wouldn’t be a realistic expectation imo. You can count my vote as a yes.

5

atlanteans shouldn’t be reworked into romans. There is more than enough content for a roman civ without being redundant with greeks and atlanteans. And like I said in another thread, apart from murmillo, atlantean units are roman in name only.

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6

The question asks literally the opposite.
They want the Atlantians to be less like Romans.

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7

I agree, I misread the poll. However, I keep saying that the atlantean units do not look roman. I made a roman civ concept some time ago, and it included some of your ideas, like north african cavalry and cretian archer. These units should go to a roman civ, not to the atlanteans, they are fine the way they are.

8

Sorry for the confusion.
Maybe the poll should have been “Should the Atlanteans be overhauled from the ground up and retain its monsters but give away its basic military units to the Romans in exchange for newer Atlantean themed units?”

Hopefully a moderator can help out and change the poll title for me since I can’t edit it after 180 minutes. :frowning:

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9

So I wasn’t the only one. I feel less alone xD

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Your question is a lil tricky haha xD. Could have been a lil more simple like: “Should Atlanteans be reworked into Romans while keeping its monsters or not?”

I have noticed the “latin” names of the units and some similarities with romans, I said in another post that I wouldnt want them changed, BUT if they change them, devs should start from the names, now the thing what language should they go with?.

I have seen recently in some vids, that some people point that a posible location of Atlantis is Africa in a ring like vestige desertic place with traces of salt (sea salt). And that some asociate Atlas (son of poseidon not the god) first king of Atlantis with Atlas the King of Mauretania, so maybe Mauretanian? dont know what language they spoke at that time though.

My problem with Atlanteans is: Are they pre Atlantis sinking or post? (in game should be post no?)

Going as @Skadidesu my suggestions would be:
In general they could go with fish themed things. Weapons and Armor with greenish-aquamarine tones.

Murmillo

  • Helmet change

Note: Its nice in concept, but its helmet it shouts gladiator and if they do Rome civ would be unfiting.

Contarius

  • No armor change
  • Weapon change lance to bident.

Arcus

  • Visual change more like murmillo armor
  • Weapon change to a type of stone thrower (crossbow of sorts) or some sort of mirror weapon that casts rays of light as the tower.

Katapeltes

  • No armor change
  • Weapon change to a trydent to better fit his function vs cavalry.

Note: Personally visaully is one the units i like most of the atlanteans, fits really well with the fishy theme.

Turma

  • Weapon change to Arpon thrower (of sorts)

Note: to show the technological advancedment of Atlanteans.

Cheiroballista

  • It needs some type of “uniform” or armor and not be a naked fat one, with helmet or hat.
  • weapon could be “modernized” to represent that “technological” advancement.

Destroyer

  • No armor change
  • Weapon change to mace (Katapeltes mace) to better fits its function vs buildings. Shield remains the same.

Fanatic
I like the fanatic but given its role they could use a heavily armored variant more as the Katapeltes, their armor style could go for the murmillo instead.

Horses
I think they could use some sort of vehicule/chariot instead of just horses for both mounted units. A chariot pulled by horses or a mechanical automaton.

Heroes
Another thing that feels lacking is that the is no representation of mermaid type of humanoids. Maybe with heroes they could represent it, that any unit made heroe gains the ability to “live underwater” and is able to “swim” or something like, that also is visually represented.

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There are hundreds of different locations of Atlantis that people suggested.
Likely Plato just completely made them up.

Both.
In the original campaign they don’t appear because they were simply not in the game yet.
But it’s not like the culture just appeared within 10 years after the sinking of Atlantis. Also all their unit, building and technology descriptions mention a long Atlantian history with them having many colonies and thing like that.
Kinda strange that those colonies are never mentioned in the campaign because what happened the them after the main island sunk?
Did they loose the connection to each other?
Did they disappear?
Was the one settlement in the Nordic country the only colony that survived?

Why Fish themed for everything? That’s probably a little much.
Also diversity in unit designs is nice, also makes it easier to differentiate them from each other especially because you also have to remember how the different shield, weapon and armour upgrades look like.

I agree with you. I also never really liked this unit. They kinda look strange as a main line infantry.

That would be cool.

No because of readability.

Not sure if that’s a good idea.
They fill the same role as any other archer so why not just make them look like an archer.
A base unit shouldn’t have a fancy weapon like a mirror tower thing.

That would make sense but mace plus big shield looks strange.
Maybe give them some fire based melee weapon instead. Like a stick that has fire at the end.
Giving the Katapeltes a two handed Trident would be nice idea and fits the theme very well.

You mean harpoon? (Arpon is French I think)

That was always a little strange to me too.

I think this unit is the perfect opportunity to go a little more wild with the design. Make them more exotic and cool looking.

I don’t think making all heroes amphibian would be a good idea.

The AoM engine was not able to make amphibian units. They added it in the Chinese DLC but it’s very bugged.
But amphibian myth units would be really cool. There are a lot of units that look like they should have that ability.

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I do think some minor changes could be made to try and dissociate some of the Atlantean unit names from the Romanic names but I don’t think a massive redesign is needed and I think other mythologies could use some attention. Atlantis is essentially a unique Greek/Latin pantheon already. Mythology is Greek titans but the human units are Roman in nature. I think you could have another pantheon that is called the Romans that uses other names for human units (there are probably plenty to choose from) with Roman mythology/myth units and that has maybe some similarities with the Greeks but some big unique differences but this wouldn’t be on my list to add right away as I think the Greeks and, Atlanteans fill this gap right now.