2-2-2-2 minor god distribution.
This increases myth unit, tech and god power variety.
Freyr was already quite fail. Lets not make same mistake with Greek and other pantheon. Hades can easily have Curse, Poseidon Plenty Vault and Zeus Ceasefire replaced with the new god powers.
From marketing point of view it also makes sense because it gives players that arent committed enough to buy DLC a reason to play the game again and during those hours they might buy the DLC
As a old time AoM fan I am absolutely against changing age up god choices for the old gods they need to stay the same.
With new major gods from old pantheons 1 new age up god choice per age and one old one like they did with Freyr is the exact way they should keep doing things with all new major gods for a pantheon.
Itâs a no-brainer to keep the game the originals the way they areâŠ.
AOMR is primarily built off of the old fanbase who knew and loved the original game - the vast majority want to experience they game they grew up with, with fresh additives, updated graphics and gameplay, new DLCâs, gamemodes etc, but with the core essence of the game intact.
Changing the base will utterly alienate this core fanbase and will kill the game, pure and simple. AOMR wonât succeed if it looks to create a new fanbase, itâs entire success is dependent on those who loved the original game to keep playing and spread the word of AOMR to others who may not have experienced Legacy. If you change the original too much, youâll lose the core playerbase, period. We want to play the game we knew, loved and grew up with, NOT AOM2.
Huh? There are already so many changes from Extended to Retold. I have no problem as a classic AoM player shuffling a bit of the minor gods. Baldr for example should be rework, weird to have fire giants as its myth unit. It is the purists that gatekeep the new content to players who wanted change. I believe in the devs they will do the right changes.
I agree that the devs should consider reshuffling the greek (and norse) minor gods with the 4th god DLCs, but it definitely isnât going to be a âno-brainerâ for everybody.
I want Hades to get Persephone if she gets added, but otherwise I donât mind keeping the minor gods for pre-existing major gods.
Even though it makes sense, how would it play for people who doesnât own the dlc?
Popular games built a logical and adaptive fanbase where their main playstyle might get changed drastically. I wont list those games but think of most popular Moba, most popular ARPG, most popular MMORPG. These type of changes keep players excited (old gets new) and returns lost players to game. People love Zeus, Hades and Poseidon, getting Demeter is just some throwing some money at the game.
It will just be changing minor gods for the better. 1 minor god out of 6 for each existing major god. For better overall game. Game wont be great if 3 out of 4 Greek major gods have Ceasefire, Underworld or Restoration. Only reason Norse wasnt as impactful is because forest fire doesnt do much and Aegir is busted with Flaming Weapons quality GP and much stronger myth. Freyr would be almost same even without minor god choices and that is why Freyr was a failure.
So yeah. 1 non-iconic minor god lost for each major god isnt big change but will make game much better design. But there are always pessimists that fight against any change, like why do we need electricity when we have fire or cars when we can ride a horse. I will try to understand you âold peopleâ but once devs actually listen to voice of reason, the game will be so much better that even you will find your previous words ridiculous. Zeus wont be worse if we take Hermes out and replace it with god that helps infantry/archers. It will strenghten his identity.
People who dont own the pack still have reason to get it to unlock Demeter or Aztecs.
Think of new minor gods as baits to get them to return to game so their addiction kicks in and they buy the DLC.
Massive mistake that game studios make is forgetting to include reason for non-DLC owners to return to game when they introduce new DLC. Spending money on something they are not paying attention to at the moment isnt what players do.
Actually what is being suggested will keep the base the same:
Dont forget that introducing 4th god will make it so that 1 minor god will occur 3 time and another 1 time. If AoM was released with following design:
Then the game would have been illogical thrash unbefitting of RTS. That is what I am trying to prevent: AoM from becoming illogical thrash. If 1-2-3 design was terrible idea on release, it still is now.
1-3 design represents monotonous design and poor strategic depth whereas 2-2-2-2 is great for diversity while being logical.
So yeah 2-2-2-2 is more faithful to AoM release state than some 1-3-2-2 moneygrab. 4th major gods are supposed to make the game better, not ruin it.
What makes you a more accurate âvoice of reasonâ than the âold peopleâ? I am firmly in the âno changing current minor godsâ camp. Zeus has Hermes as an Option to help him in matchups or certain maps. A good example being Ghost Lake, Zeus is the only Major god to be able to go Hermes AND Apollo for maximum map control, Centaurs, Cav speed and Underworld Passage.
Zeus being able to deviate from Infantry to Cavalry is not an oversight, itâs a most intended feature.
Changing current Minor Gods WILL remove options and strategies people have gotten used to and shouldnât happen.
It could very well be possible that Demeter releases without Hera as an option for mythic age and it would make sense Her being exclusive to Zeus, Argive Patronage and Lightning Storm are very Zeus only. But surely Demeter wonât release with Hephaistus? Honestly would make sense either way with Hephaistus or Artemis as the option, Hephaistus improves your Major godâs Unique unit and is an excellent quick Mythic age option thanks to Plenty vault and Forge of Olympus. Artemis could still improve and synergise with a possible Cavalry Archer unique unit.
Sounds like you want to gatekeep new players relying on your 20 year old knowledge. Reason why super popular games like League of Legends, Path of Exile and Fortnite keep growing is that they shuffle the meta regularly allowing new players more avenues to catch up and old players new experiences within their favorite matchups.
As I said, it is only 1 minor god. It is small change.
Even AoE4 and AoE2 drastically change parts of game or its civilization regularly.
Iâm weighing the possibility of losing existing player with drawing in new ones, have you?
Whenever you take away a previous option there will always be a hole where it was and it will ALWAYS be felt, be it a big or small option.
Remove Athena for either Zeus or Hades, is going to leave an Athena shaped hole for Them, Minotaur rushing for Zeus, Gone. Early momentum for Hades and Resililient Hoplite that complements His Archers, Gone.
Remove Hermes for Zeus and you will not have Hippeus and Centaurs complementing His faster Hoplites.
Remove Ares for Poseidon and you will remove pestilence rush AND the significance of Cyclops, Kronos in the Fall of the Trident Campaign.
Remove Apollo for Zeus will deprive pro-players of their mapcontrol option with Undeworld Passage and more casual-players will miss the Manticore Hordes
Remove Aphrodite for Hades or Poseidon will leave a Golden Apples, Divine Blood, Curse AND Nemean Lion Hole in Them. Cannot keep up Their favour gain with Zeus, the momentum shift with Curse and increased economy, Gone.
Remove Hephaistos from Hades and there will be people who miss Olympian weapon Gastraphetoroi Fast mythic Age Builds.
Remove Artemis from Poseidon and you remove Earthquake from the One said to invoke them according to Mythology. Also the stronger Toxotes that keep the infantry from your stronger Cavalry.
Take away ANY of these and you are still gambling that AT LEAST an equal new/returning players go. âOh wow they really changed X to Y. Now I really must try this gameâ. All while you have done substansial changes to the campaigns, other single/co-op player content current or custom.
And yes AoE 2 has done drastic changes and it didnât do it lightly, most of them were done incrementally or after some VERY VERY careful deliberations.
AoM R has done some itself, but has kept its finger from changing the CORE of the desicions. Sarissa still specifically empowers Hoplites, even if the flavour changed. Sekhmet still gives technolgies specific to the same units. Upgrades are mostly changed to increase options and playstyles. A removal of a previous Minor God will remove an entire skill expression and those radical changes was only done in AoE2 if it was FUNDAMENTALLY toxic, arguably not even comparable.
Yes. AoE4 completely reworked their siege. Which means taking away existing strategies and adding new ones.
For example Tetris is a great game but no sane person will play it more than 4 hours. Zeus, Hades and Poseidon need more change. Change is good.
You can list 10 strategies for unpopular minor gods (that you have already seen 200 times), but they will be replaced with 20 new strategies that are exciting. For just 1 minor god.
Siege replaced siege, this isnât even remotly the same thing. They didnât replace a set of: a strong ability (God Power) a Special unit (Myth unit) some focused upgrades that reinforces your choice (God technologies) all of which synergises with potential previous choice and influencing subsequent choices.
The rework you described altered tools, switching Minor Gods would at least be akin to switching a toolbox if not entire pillars of playstyles. As far as I am aware AoE 4 hasnât removed a function of a landmark. I think they ADDED a function to an English landmark so it gives a King, but in the end they didnât alter an âInfantry Civs choice to forgo even better infantry for better Cavalry that can deal with infantries threats that olso enables a cavalry archer instead of a beefy brute, together with exchanging a healthcare coupon with a timeout and a free scouting pigeonâ.
âDr Bumby says change is âconstructiveâ; that âdifferentâ is good.â
âDifferent denotes neither bad nor good, but it certainly means ânot the sameâ.â
Having your house burn down is certainly a change.
And during the last month alone I have seen them being made i 8 new contexts, these arenât small changes youâre asking for and dismissing the concerns of existing fans for Hypothetical new ones is unwise. All the current âUnpopular Choicesâ of Minor Gods have their place, their times and synergies, sometimes with each other.
I already stopped playing the game because of how they mutilated the original northerners.
Regardless of your subjective opinions, a change and reshuffle wonât happen for the simple reason that the new minor Gods will be locked behind paid DLC. Itâs utterly illogical for the devs to develop new content behind a paid DLC and then distribute it for free. Nor could keeping, for example, a Hades with Persephone behind a paid DLC work as either youâd create either two versions of Hades or end up locking the Greeks entirely behind a paywall.
There are several factors at play here.
Nostalgia, Mythology, Gameplay.
Gameplay:
The gods need to be somewhat balanced. Not perfectly, but somewhat. But that can be achieved by balancing the individual gods. By doing that, switching up what gods are available changes available tactics, but no combination is worse by default. So, tactics need to coplement and counter each other, and it needs to be possible for every god to counter each possible tactic at least somewhat.
A god that can counter one tactic extremely well, but has little means to counter against two others can still work, if his limited means are still viable means, as limited as they are.
As soon as thereâs a God thatâs perfect vs everything, thereâs never a reason to pick any other God, and if thereâs a God that sucks against everything, no matter what, thereâs never a reason to pick it.
Nostalgia:
People who played the original for decades love it, know it very well, and will struggle to let go of their favorite strategies.
To them, the destribution of god powers, technologies and myth units is exactly how it should be. The Hathor â Sobek change was already controversial, and that was just a name change. Turning Gaias depiction into a female Groot is something that got attacked hard. And thatâs a portrait and model swap, no change in gameplay or lore. Just aesthetics.
Swapping out an entire minor god would be a much bigger change. It would be rejected hard, even if itâs more mythologically accurate and doesnât break balance.
Mythology:
Persephone is Demeters Daughter and Hadesâ wife. So it would make absolute sense to have her accessible to both of them. No reason to give her to Zeus or Poseidon.
Zeus has Hera as an exclusive, since sheâs his wife. Loki has Hel, his daughter, as an exclusive.
And each of them have a very strong gameplay synergy with who the mayor god is.
But then Freyr gets access to Hel, breaking Lokis exclusivity, and gets exclusivity on three new minor gods he isnât even that closely tied to, in mythology.
That brings up the question why Set worshippers have access to Horus.
The minor god also very often doesnât match their myth unit.
Why does Dyonisos get Hydras and not Satyrs? Why does Athena get Minotaurs and not Gorgons (/Medusae)?
Shouldnât Hydra and Argus be Heras? Why does Freya give us Valkyries, and not some sort of giant Cat or Lynx? Why does Freyr not get any access to Elves?
From that perspective, it would not only make sense to reshuffle the gods entirely, but also to redefine them as well.
Why is it important for Hades to have access to Athena? It isnât. But it makes no sense for her to be accessible to Poseidon, since the two are rivals and donât like each other, and it doesnât make sense for her to be exclusive to Zeus. Does it make sense to deny Hades access to Persephone? She is, by definition of who she is, with both Demeter and Hades. So no, it does not make sense to make Persephone a demeter exclusive. Just as it makes no sense to make her a Hades exclusive, when Demeter exists.
So, the Devs have three routes to make:
Extended is a crippled version of classic AoM⊠or maybe a version with cancer â a cancer called the Chinese.
Making Persephone a Demeter exclusive is not a big deal imo. It is us player who is choosing a God to worship. It is not that deep. Set has an access to Horus after all.