That’s not a problem of their TB. In the latest patch they changed everything but that so why you are “blaming” the TB now?
You want to buff them on arabia? Buff other aspects.
So let’s keep the trend where every water map plays the same because only 4 civs that are labeled as water civs are actually viable in those maps, and let’s scrap a solid water bonus that empowers even crappy water civs for a way less meaningful generic land bonus.
By the way, sicilians have a solid wood bonus and an almost complete dock tech tree, so I don’t really see why they shouldn’t be a water civ. Because if your definition of a water civ is being broken like Italians or vikings then there isn’t much more to say…
Definition of a water civ Is a civ labeleb as “naval” in the description or that has a specific bonus for water, simply as any other civ definition
Other aspects can change as well, i Just think the TB is weak, odd, out of place for the civ, and can be changed into something better and more in line with the civ theme
Yes please, i would love a TB that can be more usefull, even a weak one.
Or add a little extra, keep that one an add something for land maps.
Can garrison 5 units in Outpost (they cant attack just hide)?
Garrisoned units heals a little faster?
I like that one posted before that anyone can train Spearman in towers.
Just whatever.
Yes in teams water map islands can be usefull but come one.
A transport ship bonus doesnt mean a naval civ.
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Then berbers should be one of the top water maps as they are labeled as naval… except that they aren’t and really nobody cares since they are balanced in arabia.
Burmese then should lose their infantry bonus as they are a monk and elephant civ, same as Malay, as they are just a naval civ, and so on…
Really the argument doesn’t stand, labels never meant nothing besides marketing the civ, which is fine.
You want to give some buff to the sicilians, I’m all for it, but leave alone their TB, is balanced and actually one of the few bonuses that force a player to actually use their head a plan in advance.
Change their stone bonus into “get +100 stone when aging up” or have the cost of serjeants reduced a bit, or have their farms start with more food even without the upgrades, all better and actuality useful options.
The only exception that I would “accept” is if it would be possible to find a similar (and not broken) land effect for the TB so to not really change the water play, but also have something for land too, like “transport ships and outposts cost 50% less wood and have +5 LoS” (don’t take it literally, it was just an example).
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Dude, a civ Is naval if It has a bonus for water. That’s Simply a fact. That’s not to say a civ cannot be both naval and something else, like malay, but sicilians simply aren’t a naval civ and are not intended to be either
Other civs that have a TB base on water are clearly water civs, like dravidians or Vikings, and that’s good. And those bonuses are also extremely good in that kind of Maps.
On the other rhand, while you think water, you dont think sicilians, and vice-versa. You think bonus damage (they have the reduction), fortification (Castle and donjons and TC bonuses), infantry and cavalry, but not water
And even if you use them on water, that bonus is niche at best and not really useful or nearly as useful as something like other water TB, let alone regular Team bonuses…
It’s a waste of a bonus atm
Berbers have a naval bonus and a naval label, and yet nobody use them on water maps because they suck…
Sicilians were from the start pictured as a civ that could be viable on water with an outside-of-the-box strategy of landing to get an advantage.
And besides, they have a good wood bonus and a good water tech tree, so I don’t see why they couldn’t be considered a water civ.
That’s your thinking, assuming that everyone thinks like that it’s a little bit arrogant…
Maybe for you, but the bonus has a purpose and excel at that purpose, so it’s fine.
Make the Donjon as cheaper as a regular Tower and give them +100 stone when advancing to Castle and Imperial
Also make the Serjeant viable (not sure how)
I would like a better TB water oriented and also make the damage bonus more powerfull
The only thing I don’t fully like about Sicilians are the Hauberk tech, but I don’t think that will change
Gotta disagree. If you are talking for instance about an African civ like say Songhai or Kanembu it would be perfectly reasonable to give them a fishing boat bonus due to their ability to live on the fish of Lake Chad but not a warship bonus or even a weaker late game navy. Does thst a naval civ make? No but it does give them a slight eco bonus on water for otherwise Sahara based empires