Decent proposal. But do Sicilians non-cav units need this to block future potential?
And Franks Paladin is also some of the best if not the best Paladin in the game. Being able to be equal with Franks Paladin against halb, camel and all the archers at 600 food, 150 gold cheaper price as well as 170 seconds earlier, is actually a very strong feat, not the way you want to showcase.
I think your 33%/50% proposal is a good way to start though.
Indeed. 50% bonus resistance became OP only after introduction of Hauberk. Weak archer civs like Malay, Koreans, Vietnamese couldn’t find a way to deal with them in any point. But ever since, pikeman upgrade cost is reduced, all those weak archer civs got buff while Sicilians bonus is nerfed. Maybe we should think something different for Hauberk?
It was OP and even pros back in the day were losing to Sicilian Cavalier spam (Jordan vs ACCM KOTD), being better than paladin taking arrow damage while also being better than Frankish/Teutonic Paladin vs Halbs while being cheaper and faster to upgrade + Conversion resistance was simply too strong.
What I find funny is now Sicilian Cavalier is obsolete now with Savar being in the game.
both of these would make them way too strong early game rushes/pushes
the only archer that deal bonus damage to cavalry is italians, so you don’t really need to include archers in there and just infantry, which really is just vikings, pike/halbs and camels.
camels themselves dont deal that much bonus damage to cavalry compare to pike/halb which is a good bonus against and 50% would be way too strong, and with the new devotion and sicilian’s resistance conversion would make it almost uncounterable
Maybe new ut to buff sicilians serjeant to take reduced dmg from onager+ take no friendly dmg from onager. Then 50% resistance will be acceptable and buff thrir early game+mid game and probably arena for relics
Just had a look at the stats at aoestats.io
And Sicilians are currently the best Civ in < 850 elo.
looks like the Serjeants are especially effective at lower elos. And I’m not really surprised by that tbh.
Imo the current design of Infantry is just naturally leading to this skill level discrepancies.
Cause there is no specification, no utiltiy that can be leveraged to an advantage at higher levels.
Still even at 1200+ sicilans still sit at 50 % thanks to the youpudding.
And I also don’t see anybody complaining about it.
For me it’s quite obvious there is definitely potential in the way sicilians are designed - especially the way serjeants work in leveraging timing advantages.For me they are a perfect example how Infantry could be adusted to become relevant without overshadowing or breaking the knight/archer meta.
Serjeants aren’t even cost efficient. But they can tank a little (also TC fire) and don’t need much investment/time to be upgraded.
The only thing to be solved is the skill discrepancy, probably through the addtioni of a specialised Infantry counter.
Currently there are 2 dedicated civ change threads are active. One is this one, for Sicilians, other one is for Bulgarians. Both civs are officially classified as “Infantry & Cavalry” civ. Coincidence?
It’s very selective.
EG Britons already for years are one of the worst performing civs on the ladder.
And nobody demands buffs for them. We actually had them nerfed 11
sicilians are not a fast civ, so they are never going to be a problem in early game for every prepared opponent. youpudding strat lasted like a week then everyone realized how to counter, cause sicilians in dark age have 0 bonuses and that’s a huge drawback in modern AOE.
the archer thing is because the damage reduction is not just for cav, is for all military units except siege, so even archers and infantry…my suggestion was that the 33% damage redction is useless for infantry and archers of sicilias while 50% was actually capable of opening some different strategies in feudal age
oh i agree i think hauberk was the problem and needed to be nerfed and they did! it was 500F/400G and became 700F/600G so it already was nerfed quite hard, BUT they added the bonus damage reduction on top of it, resulting in sicilians having 0 useful units basically compared to competitors
also the meta has shifted and changed a lot from where sicilians were “strong” (they never really were OP, their pickrate and winrate in tournament was at best equal to any good civ (not S tier civs) right now, but people hated on them more for some reason)
i think the damage reduction should be reverted to 50% and then see what happens. could also be staggered like 30% feudal/40% castle/50% imp even tough that would not help a different opening in feudal which would be more interesting
for how bad they are right now, they really need that kind of buff, and maybe a donjon buff since it never really was strong and still isn’t
poles enjoy folwark at the same cost of mill but with various added bonuses, armenians/georgians can have churches on ######## that shoot arrows and are super resistents and train the very decent warrior monk or boost you eco a ton, for 25 wood more alone. meanwhile sicilians pays way more res for their towers and really have a bit more HP and capability to train a not stellar unit like serjeants…it should be way cheaper
I can certainty make a new UU for Sicilians in 2030. Not for now though. Maybe changing Hauberk to +30 HP will be a good call as it will act as 50% bonus damage resistance without touching other units.
They need some good eco bonus. Either for dark age food or faster food from farms. Like farmers drop-off +1 food for each mill upgrade and crop rotation removed.
I share your feeling that the civ is quite weak, but this is mathematically impossible. Maybe you assembled the villagers before timing the build for Spanish while the Sicilian vills blocked each other for a while due to pathing
Thats why I said dark age food OR farm bonus. They need to be able to hit feudal fast and villagers should be able to build a Donjon that doesn’t attack in dark age. Other ways can be stone mining giving a trickle of food, total serjeant numbers increasing the attack, build and repair speed of Donjon. Idea is they need a strong food benefit to get Donjon + serjeant play going without it being too gimmicky like Youpudding.
I don’t want slapping a good Dark Age bonus to them either. I’d only ask to make their houses also build 100% faster. So all buildings that gives pop space is built faster.