Sicilians changes. Buffed, nerfed, or just tweaked?

As per the title, how do you see the new sicilian changes?

They are atm one of the worst civ, around bottom 5, and rated very low by pros all around, and received big nerfs lately with little compensation. So they are in a bad spot

Now they received nerfs to Castle building Speed, Nerf to First crusade, and Nerf to serjeants repair Speed, but got cheaper elite serjeants, and serjeants are tankier in feudale e Castle Age, and donjons count as barracks for range and stable, and can train spearmen

It does not seem like a net buff to me since serjeants still are very expensive and making them tankier earlier does not change that in late game you pay 95 res for these guys, and even earlier you have no eco to sustain this kind of cost. Also donjons still as expensive as ever, even if with more utility

On the other note, two of the best civ assets (Castle drop and First crusade) have been nerfed, pushing the civ into serjeants basically while not giving you the eco to make that possible

Overall, i personally see it as a step in the night direction, but things with this civ need to be cheaper imho, or gain a stronger eco bonus

It looks more like nerf to me.

  • I am not a trusher, so I wouldnt trush and make spears out of the building.
  • I want to keep my stone for TCs or to sell it, so I wont make a dongeon to unlock stables and ranges. Even without the fact that it would delay the stable/range timing.
  • The nerf to castle building speed is a nerf
  • the castle age button is a nerf on closed maps and nomad
  • The sergeant buffs are a little w/e for me, and IMO dont compensate for the rest.
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Make them Infantry and Naval civ as they were before and bring back the reduction bonus damage
-At the very least make the Donjon upgrade itself with every Age-

yeah seems like devs still have to get sicilians right sadly… i don’t see this change to be much of a benefit.

make serjeants and donjons a bit cheaper would help much more imho

I would even be hesitant to calling serjeants changes a buff tbh. Yeah is a clear buff in feudale and castles which is great, but the problem for serjeants always was imho that at 95 res you never have the eco to make concrete use of their stats, you simply have no enough vill to produce the res you need unless you go 1-tc push for serjeants.

A strategy that now is more viable since you can train Spears to counter cav, but still need a barrack for upgrades, and It cost 75W and 175S for a donjons.

Later in the game, cavalier has been nerfed and hauberk is expensive, and archers are not terrible but still unusable

They still need to compensate the bonus discount nerf imho or increase the civ overall eco or make things easier to afford

Like serjeants could get -5 or -10 res (Gold, food, or a split), and donjons could cost only Stone and no wood, or just 25 wood, or their farming bonus could be made better to have an impact in dark age. Like add “and farm techs cost X% less”

The area they got buff is that pikes train in Donjon. But what is the incentive of training pikes in Donjon?

While the rest castle drop and castle UT get nerf.

Idea is you can tower rush with Spears alongside serjeants to kill scouts and repell early Castle Age knights if you are late to Castle yourself, and also to tower you Gold and greed up to castle Age with stables and have Spears in the meantime to fend off scout rushes

Not a bad thing at all tbh, but the problem of having simply too much res to spend for the early game eco stands. If donjons/serjeants were made cheaper as well then it would have been another story

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Devs must hate Sicilians really hard.
This is a straight nerf to them.
Spears in Donjons? Useless, unless you try to Donjon rush in feudal which is hilariously bad given the huge cost of the Donjon for a feudal economy.
But ok, keep nerfing them I guess.

Donjon rush is usually not a good move imo.

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Oh yeah, i know that trust me lol. They simply are too expensive for the amoubt of eco you have in feudale. That’s why i am saying they need cheaper serjeants/donjons, or a better eco bonus.

I think it must be used to tower your Gold and defende rushes and greed to Castle to 1-tc FC knights…which is lame

Give serjeants -5F, -5G
Give donjons -50W, or -25S, or something like that

And/or give sicilians a better eco bonus or expand the existing one, like farm techs 20% cheaper

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Another possible eco bonus could be change the farm bonus to a flat food addition to farms starting in dark age and increasing with Age, regardless of you getting the tech.

Exact numbers are up for debate, but something that would made farms similar as they are enow for sicilians, but with a bit of a bonus in dark age farms, and no requiring the techs saving res

Something like: farms produce 50/100/200/300 more food when built in dark/feudale/Castle/Imperial Age

Overall its less bonus food than What siciliana currently get, but more in the early game when matters most, and without requiring to get the farm techs.