Sicilians new UT Hauberk too OP?

Weren’t Sicilians supposed to be an infantry civ?

The Sicilian new UT now gives 1+ melee armour and 2+ pierce armour for the knight line. The Cavalier now has 6 melee and 8 pierce, which is practically a mounted huskarl. Archers had no use against the Sarjeant, why give the knight line such big buff against archers as well?

Now if you want to counter the knight line with pikes = sarjeants and donjons
The Cavaliers which could be countered with mass arbalest now are just as strong as the sarjeant.
Maybe remove the pierce armour or give it just +1

You can’t counther them with pikes because of 50% bonus damage resistance (and also sarjeants/donjons);
Can’t counter them with monks because first crusade;
Can’t counter them with archers.

I mean, if sicilian is fully knights and you use pikes, then they can just First Crusade and boom, 35 sarjeants ready to wreak your pikes. I’d rather just keep Scutage.


Sicilians just got messed up this patch again, the only good thing is the +100 stone at start.
The team bonus is silly on islands and opened a toxic ways to play here.
Hauberk tech is just silly, poorly designed to a civ that isn’t even supposed to be a cavalry civilization, their cavaliers absorbing 50% less damage were already pretty strong, now the only way to counter them effectively is with heavy cavalry, which is wayyyy more expensive, serjeant and cavalier army in imperial is almost bonkers lol, archers can’t touch them.
If you ask me, I will just remove that tech and give it something for infantry instead.
But that isn’t the only thing that is stupid, say hi to Burmese eleRams and even the Cuman change is kinda strong.


Or you can make it gives +1/+1 to infantry and cavalry and remove last cavalry armor or somethi g like that.

The only one infantry in game with extra melee and pierce armor is the condottiero, iirc.

1 Like

i found a bit ridicolous that these knights are conversion resistant due to first crusade, pikes resistant due to the civ bonus and now even arror resistant. THey have no counter anymore.

yeah yeah you can soft counter tham if you happen nto be lucky and got paladins yourself.

what kind of rock paper scissor design is this.

i dont like it. this buff is too much on a civ that already games the fundamental countering system of aoe2.

  1. remove the conversion resistance from first crsaude
  2. reduce the pierce armor to +1
  3. pop a beer, you got a balance civ (hopefully)

Halbs and camels are still cost effective against them

1 Like

And Serjeants counter both, and Sicilians have halbs

This is like saying that Halbs are a bad counter to Boyars because Slavs have amazing champions

Just to be clear, Im not saying it wont be OP (Im not sure) but halbs and camels still counter them


They take -50% bônus damage and can always sarjeant their way out from halbs. They also have halbs so any camel army is easily countered since the knight line can resist way more against them.

1 Like

Already answered FurtherLime about this in other comment.

Yes they take 40% less damage than palas, but they still lose to generic halbs and camels.

Yes but there is still the sarjeant part that they can instantly pull out and counter halbs and camels.

As I see it now, they can hard counter basically anything.

Slavs dont hard counter halbs and camels because they have amazing infantry either


But can Slavs insta spam 35 of those and easily mass them with a unique building?

Champions are cheaper to build, stronger and barracks are far better than donjons for production.

And Slav eco >>>>> Sicilian eco.

1 Like

Where are you trying to get with this? Why are you talking about Slavs at all?

I am talking about the new Sicilian UT which make their knight line super OP and the fact that they can easily counter most units. Boyars need castle and the infantry can be countered with archers, you can’t counther sicilians with archers, they can counter your camels and halbs with their own sargeant and pikes, their cavalry is very strong and they also get to spam sarjeants from numerous donjons (and also insta spam 35 of them first hand), which also grants conversion resistance.

Don’t forget sarjeants are ALSO archer resistant.

You putting Slavs into this discussion makes no sense at all.

  1. Not sure if remove the conversion resistance, maybe nerf it a little bit
  2. I would add the effect of Hauberk to the militia-line as well and reduce the PA to +1
  3. For sure!
1 Like

Cos I feel like the arguments you are making dont make much sense in practice.

Serjeants cost stone to produce and are fairly weak against champions just like your own cavaliers. Theres a ton of diferent combinations that complement each other extremely well and have no clear single counter.

Again, why is this any diferent from any other civ having a deathball that is hard to counter?


Have you played with or against sicilians with this comp?

All “deathballs” can be countered with something, be it siege, archers, skirms, pikes… The point is: Sicilians have become immune to archer and can easily deal with infantry and cavalry, is practaclly unbeatable in late game.

Again, on Slavs: you can counther either boyars and their infantry with archers, it’s not a super OP civ.

1 Like

Want one example that has no obvious counter? Portuguese Organ Gun, Bombard cannon and halbs. And no, archers dont work well.

Boyars deal with archers pretty well and if thats not enough you just add cheap rams. Rams +champion > Serjeant

Havent gotten time to play in my house yet.

The cost of the UT should be higher though

I agree that there are some ultra OP combos, but still most of them are hard to keep. You talk portuguese organs + canons + halbs. This is almost impossible to maintain as a combo, with such high cost. But I agree with you, yet I suggest you try Sicilians with Hauberk.

The extra stone gives you basically an extra TC, so you can boom way harder and spam cavalier and pull out sarjenats fairly easy. I’m not talking very late game, I’m talking early imp. In arena its almost unstopable. But I get what you were trying to say, I just believe that you should take a look and see for yourself what Sicilians have become now.

Lol, I guess gunpowder units and halbs are the best way to beat sicilians cavaliers… HC does 9 dmg, arbs 2.