Siege Current Situation //proposal changes

[GoldenArmorX]

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@Lam

If we are going to talk about “historically” the game is over hahaha we are going to talk about ballance the game;

Well, by history I was referring to the “Historical Simile” or at least the basic representation that is expected for which there is a certain suspension of disbelief:

• Useful Crossbows vs. Armored Units, good Spearmans vs. Cavalry, and so on. At least I think that any unit should do “some damage” to another unit, except in cases where they were invulnerable (Plate Armor vs. Arrows, usually this armor repels all arrows, so it’s good that the Heavy Armor Units are very resistant to archers ).

• In the case of cavalry vs mangonels, at least for the moment the cavalry have the advantage of being able to dodge their shots while moving.

• But, in the case of cavalry vs cannons, with faster shots, I don’t think they would survive a direct cannonball if they aim well.
  → Of course, in the game it should not translate to dying from one shot, but neither does it mean that the horseman would be invincible aggainst siege and receive 1 damage per shot, we need to respect certain “suspension of disbelief”, or if not, this would be another problem, not historically, but of aesthethic in the list to resolve (More Fauna, Different Polearms for Spearman per civ, etc)

• Let’s look at AoE3 where things are more balanced: the cavalry can withstand 2, 3 or 4 cannon shots but it’s not like they get 1 damage per shot.

• Again, Your solution of reduce the damage the cavalry receive for siege “is good”, but the only thing i discrepe is the quantity, but nothing more.

@Lam

historically nobodies use mangonels against a bunch of troops,

Technically the Romans used them like this, and in the game instead of mangonels we have Onagers called that (a mistake that I suppose is only to make a reference to the AoE2 mangonels). I was actually one of those who suggested that they change to small Torsion Trebuchets, so that it would be more historically accurate, or at least their name to onager. ( [Suggestion] Change name of Mangonel to Onager)

At the moment there are no MODs for that idea, but in theory, the “Mangonel” in the game represents a siege weapon loaded with a bunch of rocks for AoE damage, so in theory it “should” hurt the soldiers that receive rocks in their heads or limbs, etc.

Another thing is the amount of damage and the area damage, but that is debatable.

@Lam

. In the feudal age Canons were too expensive to produce so, usually the armies only have a few of them (very few between 3 or 5 canon pieces)

In fact, it depends on the army, it cannot be generalized. The Burgundians, who are not in the game yet, had an exaggerated number of bombards, ribauldequins and other types per battle, even the Scots.

On the other hand, the siege costs 3 population, so it is normal that the siege in the game does not outnumber the majority of troops.

And in theory in the game one makes a hypothetical army "with all the freedom to see which combo looks best." If one wants to copy the Burgundian or Ottoman model with the English and create a bombard squadron, then one can do it. Another thing is that your entire economy is wasted on it, and worse if you don’t take good care of them, “like in the real life”.

At least in Ranked 1vs1 one cannot trust oneself and create bombards without taking risks, and that is if the game reaches post-imperial, otherwise it will be difficult for you to even see one produced.

@Lam

The Constantinople siege only had 12 Great bombards and 7000 soldiers; ottomans try to use the canons to destroy the wall and they can’t achieve the goal, the anecdotal of this siege is… a guard forgot to close the gate and the ottoman army enter for the gate lol.

They were not able to destroy it because the Byzantines spent their time “repairing” the damaged walls", and it was not a single wall, it was a complex of 2 walls, behind an artificial water moat. The event you narrate about the door could be an event for a Campaign scenario, there is no reason to say that it cannot be in the game.

@Lam

Man that’s the solution, we want that people stop abusing mangonels.

So for u what is the solution?

That’s the thing, “I don’t want mangonels to stop being used.”

I like them, they are the only general unit effective against groups of archers, since light cavalry hardly does the job well if there are too many of them.

Another thing is that you have to balance their attack, AoE range, etc.

[NEWS] New Patch 10 in one or two weeks with Season 7

And well, according to the Preview of the patch that will come out, the developers already have a temporary solution:

With those changes, Springald AGAIN can destroy mangos of 2 shots, and also, they conserve their great attack speed.

Well, let’s see how it turns out in the next season.